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Spewing Tail Pipes Batman!

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Spewing Tail Pipes Batman!

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Old 07-12-07, 10:46 AM
  #1  
sukram
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Spewing Tail Pipes Batman!

Well, we all know it, pollution is bad for you. Just some info on what studies are showing about athletes and city air.

I do dig the last sentence though:

“I ride my bike back and forth to work every day,” he said. “If everyone else did that, too, we wouldn’t be having this problem at all, would we?”
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/12/fa...pagewanted=all

Maybe it's time for a respirator and a bright yellow t-shirt that says something witty about respirator wearers protecting themselves against exhaust. I'm not even going to pretend I have anything witty to say about it...
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Old 07-12-07, 11:12 AM
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I try to hold my breath whenever I'm about to be dusted by an accelerating diesel truck. I don't think the particulate "soot" comes much from gasoline burners, so if everyone rode their bikes instead of driving we would just have more people exposed to the pollution. I think the trick would be to have green truckers loaded up with paniers and granny gears.
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Old 07-12-07, 11:47 AM
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The diesel situation should be getting better. Low sulpur fuel was mandated by the Feds this year, and combined with an efficient motor, drastically reduces the soot from diesel tailpipes.

On a related note, I saw a really funny commercial the other day showing a "green" trucker passing some outdoorsy people and everyone was feeling warm and fuzzy because the truck was so clean. It was a message from the trucking industry about how they're making the world so much better for all of us. What's so funny is that low sulphur fuel has been available for quite a while, and the trucking industry (along with big oil) has been fighting for years to keep high sulphur fuel the standard in the US. It's cool how they spin something they hate and were forced to adopt into something to make them look green.

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Old 07-12-07, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Az B
It's cool how they spin something they hate and were forced to adopt into something to make them look green.
EVERY industry does that. They rail on about how if they're forced to make some change, chaos and destruction will reign, they'll all go out of business, everyone will lose their jobs, dogs and cats living together in the streets, etc.

Then if it's finally mandated, half the time it turns out that they SAVE money by doing it, and they start going on about how progressive they are and how they're always looking out for their customers.

The auto industry is an easy target on this one. Seat belts were going to be too expensive. Making cars with crumple zones and other safety features is too expensive. Emission controls are too expensive. Increasing the fuel economy is too expensive.

Well guess what? Even if it IS expensive, it's what people want. If you're not going to deliver it, have fun selling those less expensive products that nobody wants anymore, while people go buy from your competitors.
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Old 07-12-07, 02:51 PM
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^^ BUT does my next car (in 3-5 years as ours is almost 8 now) NEED 6-10 airbags? I would only be getting a basic small car (fit, yaris etc) and it seems like they MUST come with at least 4 airbags if not more.

I have exploded an air bag before in the front yard (apart from the car) and I definitely would NOT want that to explode in my face

I would sooner be able to take $1000 off the purchase price and forego the explosive charges alltogether.
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Old 07-12-07, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 1ply
^^ BUT does my next car (in 3-5 years as ours is almost 8 now) NEED 6-10 airbags? I would only be getting a basic small car (fit, yaris etc) and it seems like they MUST come with at least 4 airbags if not more.
Actually I would happily live without the front airbags; I've always thought they were mainly protecting people too stupid to wear their seatbelts. I notice that when they release stats about how many people were "saved" by airbags, they never say how many weren't wearing their seatbelts.

However, we're about to buy a new car, and I'm ABSOLUTELY paying extra for the side air bags. That's where they're really needed. Getting T-boned is a nightmare scenario.

Originally Posted by 1ply
I have exploded an air bag before in the front yard (apart from the car) and I definitely would NOT want that to explode in my face
OK, take your pick. A piece of air-filled cloth hitting your face at 100 MPH, or a dashboard whacking your face at 50 MPH. I'll take the cloth.
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Old 07-12-07, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ItsJustMe
Actually I would happily live without the front airbags; I've always thought they were mainly protecting people too stupid to wear their seatbelts.
Have you even noticed that race cars don't have Air Bags? The drivers have a tough 5 point harness and some solid metal between them and certain death at speed of over 100mph.

Can't we get them in our cars? Noooo! We get airbags because many people are too stupid, in-denial or arrogant to admit that they are going at a high rate of speed. If they called them exploding safety bags, do you think people would still accept them? As usual, automakers have sold a load of hooey to the public.
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Old 07-12-07, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ItsJustMe
Actually I would happily live without the front airbags; I've always thought they were mainly protecting people too stupid to wear their seatbelts. I notice that when they release stats about how many people were "saved" by airbags, they never say how many weren't wearing their seatbelts.
Actually, not using your seatbelt makes an airbag very dangerous. They were designed with the intent that the user would also be restrained by the seatbelt. See this article.

On another note, am I the only one who occasionally decides which part of the lane to stop in at a light/stop sign based on where the exhaust pipe of the car in front of me is? If the car has their exhaust on the right of the vehicle I'll assume a position closer to the center/left side of the lane so I'm not choking on their idling exhaust.
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Old 07-13-07, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by fuerein

On another note, am I the only one who occasionally decides which part of the lane to stop in at a light/stop sign based on where the exhaust pipe of the car in front of me is? If the car has their exhaust on the right of the vehicle I'll assume a position closer to the center/left side of the lane so I'm not choking on their idling exhaust.
Nope it's not just you. I refuse to stop by the side of any vans/pickups/short busses etc that have exhausts pointing my way. I'd rather be beside the second car in the lineup (vs lining up by the first) or I'll be near that vehicles front bumper but stopping to breathe their fumes I don't do.
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Old 07-13-07, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ItsJustMe
OK, take your pick. A piece of air-filled cloth hitting your face at 100 MPH, or a dashboard whacking your face at 50 MPH. I'll take the cloth.
You would change your mind if you've seen (and heard) one of these explode. Maybe we could get someone that works for either fire/police or ambulance to chime in with what the 'accident' victims look like after they've had an encounter with an airbag. Stunned would be one, a little deaf another and covered with white powder that apparently does not wash out easily (least of their worries) <<< I saw that on CSI

And to answer the question: I'll take seatbelt for 100 Alex.
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Old 07-13-07, 06:48 AM
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Wearing a respirator make make people nervous. Like are you're a terrorist nervous. I tried to wear one of those little white surgical masks once I got on an airplane, as when I get the flu I get it BAD, and was told I couldn't wear it. I got off the plane, which they didn't like either.
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Old 07-16-07, 09:54 AM
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There's a point downtown where buses take both lanes, this am I wound up, what the heck, centering behind the bus. Since the bus was defining 2 lanes down to one, why not follow it? I think I was actually as well removed from directly sucking its tailpipe as possible, plus I was better set to pass him on the left when he finally did pull over to pick someone up (later than most buses in that spot usually do).
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Old 07-16-07, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by 1ply
^^ BUT does my next car (in 3-5 years as ours is almost 8 now) NEED 6-10 airbags? I would only be getting a basic small car (fit, yaris etc) and it seems like they MUST come with at least 4 airbags if not more.

I have exploded an air bag before in the front yard (apart from the car) and I definitely would NOT want that to explode in my face

I would sooner be able to take $1000 off the purchase price and forego the explosive charges alltogether.
I've been in a car when the airbags deployed because of a collision. I suffered minor abrasions on both wrists and a slight abrasion on my nose but otherwise I was fine. I was wearing a seatbelt but I've seen statistics that airbags combined with seatbelt use do save more lives over just seatbelt use alone.

My wife's car has side curtain airbags front and rear, front airbags and even knee level airbags for the driver and passenger. Personally, I think it's great since her car is relatively small and fuel efficient. I'd rather she and my son be protected by airbags with all the fullsize SUVs and trucks on the road.
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Old 07-16-07, 10:53 AM
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Isn't it amazing that they ban smoking within certain city limits, but think nothing about car and diesel truck exhaust?
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Old 07-16-07, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Artkansas
Have you even noticed that race cars don't have Air Bags? The drivers have a tough 5 point harness and some solid metal between them and certain death at speed of over 100mph.

Can't we get them in our cars? Noooo! We get airbags because many people are too stupid, in-denial or arrogant to admit that they are going at a high rate of speed. If they called them exploding safety bags, do you think people would still accept them? As usual, automakers have sold a load of hooey to the public.
Have you noticed that they do wear helmets, a fire resistant drivers suit, gloves, shoes, and they usually have some sort of HANS device? Some of the fastest and safest racing cars on the planet have a survival cell (cockpit) made entirely of carbon fiber with no steel in them whatsoever.

This crash would have killed a driver 10 years ago. He sustained a sprained ankle and a mild concussion.
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Old 07-16-07, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by SDRider
Have you noticed that they do wear helmets, a fire resistant drivers suit, gloves, shoes, and they usually have some sort of HANS device? Some of the fastest and safest racing cars on the planet have a survival cell (cockpit) made entirely of carbon fiber with no steel in them whatsoever.

This crash would have killed a driver 10 years ago. He sustained a sprained ankle and a mild concussion.
Oh, we'll see that level of protection in cars eventually, I'm sure. Multi-point seat belts will be first...
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Old 07-16-07, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by jeff-o
Oh, we'll see that level of protection in cars eventually, I'm sure. Multi-point seat belts will be first...
I'd rather just see them all put on rails first, or maybe controlled by transponders from air-traffic control towers.
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Old 07-16-07, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by 1ply
You would change your mind if you've seen (and heard) one of these explode. Maybe we could get someone that works for either fire/police or ambulance to chime in with what the 'accident' victims look like after they've had an encounter with an airbag. Stunned would be one, a little deaf another and covered with white powder that apparently does not wash out easily (least of their worries) <<< I saw that on CSI

And to answer the question: I'll take seatbelt for 100 Alex.
You'd change your mind if you've seen someone's face splattered on a windshield. Stunned, covered with dust, and ringing ears would be a lucky way to exit a high-speed crash.

As noted, the seatbelt/airbag thing isn't an either/or. Also note that seatbelts don't help much for side impacts, which is the focus of recent development in airbags.
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Old 07-16-07, 11:43 AM
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Friends had a freak airbag thing, so many things went wrong it's hard to tell which bad things were by design and which were just more signs of the problem, but their airbag went off from a 5mph bumper tap, blew out their windshield, blacked their eyes, broke their noses. They were successfully kept from flying through the windshield, and didn't lose any teeth.
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Old 07-16-07, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Az B
The diesel situation should be getting better. Low sulpur fuel was mandated by the Feds this year, and combined with an efficient motor, drastically reduces the soot from diesel tailpipes.

On a related note, I saw a really funny commercial the other day showing a "green" trucker passing some outdoorsy people and everyone was feeling warm and fuzzy because the truck was so clean. It was a message from the trucking industry about how they're making the world so much better for all of us. What's so funny is that low sulphur fuel has been available for quite a while, and the trucking industry (along with big oil) has been fighting for years to keep high sulphur fuel the standard in the US. It's cool how they spin something they hate and were forced to adopt into something to make them look green.

Az
And its important to note that ultra-low sulphur diesel only makes it *possible* to drastically drop particulate emissions (the high sulphur diesel clogs modern particulate filters). By itself use of ULSD only drops particulates a fraction.

So unless they mandate retrofits (in CA they're considering it) it'll be another decade at least before new trucks are really phased in.

In the mean time, I'm trying out using an R95 respirator (the 3M 8240 lightweight disposable ones) on the part of my commute that is next to a freeway. I figure if folks can do coal mining in them, I can bike in one :-)
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Old 07-16-07, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 1ply
You would change your mind if you've seen (and heard) one of these explode. Maybe we could get someone that works for either fire/police or ambulance to chime in with what the 'accident' victims look like after they've had an encounter with an airbag. Stunned would be one, a little deaf another and covered with white powder that apparently does not wash out easily (least of their worries) <<< I saw that on CSI

And to answer the question: I'll take seatbelt for 100 Alex.
I was fortunate enough last month to have one of these go off in my face. My friend with me, the guy that hit me and I walked away without a scratch. We all had seatbelts and airbags. I was hit head on. I didn't like them until that. Now I am a believer in them. The only negative was the smoke from the airbag stings the eyes a little and makes you think the dash is on fire for a split second.
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Old 07-16-07, 09:01 PM
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Oh god help me I breathing bad air, I'm going to die, I don't want to die, I'm shrinking ahhhhhhh.

Get a grip people. I tour all over the US, Canada and Europe for months at a time and yet had to worry about what I was breathing. Maybe if I pedaled into Mexico or China I might worry in those places.

Holding your breath while riding your bike when a "polluter" goes by is just plain stupid because in a very short time your going to have to gulp some air, and in that instant your taking more dirtier air deeper into your lungs then had you just breathed normally. The best thing to do is do put your jersey over your mouth and nose and breath through that and only use your nose which filters dirt way better then through your mouth.
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Old 07-17-07, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by b_young
I was fortunate enough last month to have one of these go off in my face. My friend with me, the guy that hit me and I walked away without a scratch. We all had seat belts and airbags. I was hit head on. I didn't like them until that. Now I am a believer in them. The only negative was the smoke from the airbag stings the eyes a little and makes you think the dash is on fire for a split second.
I too am a believer in the airbag. I had one go off years ago in an accident; had it not I would imagine I would have been a bit worse off. As it was I suffered a small scratch under my chin and the much talked about (but easy to brush off) white powder. As for 5-6 point belts, they are designed for cars with full cages and head and neck restraints (HANS). I would not want to be strapped in during a rollover if I didn't have a cage to keep me from being shortened by about 12".
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Old 07-17-07, 12:06 PM
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FWIW, evidence is coming out that says that gasoline particulates ARE more numerous.

Plus, they go further into your lungs (due to being smaller,) and are worse carcinogens.

Diesel particulates fall out of the air much more quickly.

However, interestingly, from one study... in a given time period, TEN diesel cars idling (IIRC, it was a 2000? Focus or Mondeo) put out the same amount of particulates as ONE cigarette burning.
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Old 07-17-07, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by bhtooefr View Post
FWIW, evidence is coming out that says that gasoline particulates ARE more numerous.

Plus, they go further into your lungs (due to being smaller,) and are worse carcinogens.

Diesel particulates fall out of the air much more quickly.

However, interestingly, from one study... in a given time period, TEN diesel cars idling (IIRC, it was a 2000? Focus or Mondeo) put out the same amount of particulates as ONE cigarette burning.
Yeah sure, I've been riding bikes since I was a kid and I'm over 60 today yet I'm not coughing up blood from cancer in the lungs, or else where's for that matter.
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