Serious question: What is the benefit of a better bike?
 

Hi there folks, I posted this in the road bike section and several people suggested I'd get better answers in this forum.

I had two questions for those who know vastly more about bikes and biking than I do. I'm a newbie, just started and have been trying to commute to work. I have a long (20+ miles each way) ride that is 90% on a river bed bike trail, so I don't have to go on the road much, I also have a locker at work so I don't carry anything but repair items. I don't race and haven't gone on any group rides, nor do I expect to do either in the future. However, I do want to ride as fast as possible to cut my rather lengthy drive time down.

My question is, would I benefit from a better bike, would I experience a noticable increase in speed? Currently I ride Schwinn Fastback 27 I generally find myself spinning at 95-110rpm at the 42x19 or 42x17 gear ration (mattering if I'm riding with or against the wind), would a more expensive bike such as a Trek Madone (or another bike is the same price range ~$2000 [the 07s are on sale]) ride noticably faster, or is the speed increase only really noticeable in a race where a small increase in speed would make a big difference. I realize the biggest variable is my motor, but would a nicer bike make a noticable difference? I'd be thrilled if I could average over 20mph, currently I go 14-15 mph and figure I can eventually strengthen my legs to go 18mph on my schwinn. Would a nicer bike give me a 3, 4, or 5 mph premium; would I ride at a higher gear ratio, or would I just spend money to spend it (I'm fairly satisfied with the schwinn)?

Basically are the returns on an expensive bike worthwhile for someone who has no intention of racing, but wants to get to work as fast as possible.

Also, I wonder if better bikes are built for racing, are they more fragile for day to day use? For instance, lighter tires sounds nice, but will I need to true the wheels every couple of rides (My route does have some rough areas, but overall is fairly well paved)?

Thanks in advance,
W

Welcome to the commuter group. I actually ride a F900 Cannondale which is a 2,000 dollar hardtail MTB - I can cruise at 18 MPH with it without much problems. What I particularly like about it is that is survives just about anything, rocky roads, chickens, cow manure - just about anything. I have never trued the tires and I must have well over 10,000 kilometers on it - who knows, perhaps 20,000. I ride a lot.

A better bike might get you there faster, but I think after you improve your engine. It won't take long for the engine to tune-up though if you are riding everyday - give it about 3 months.

just my dos colones

It's been my experience (and this is in general), that with bicycles and their components, you see a increase in reliability between the lower end and middle range. And then you see a decrease in weight between middle range and high end.

If you're not a racer, the 105 or LX level seems dependable/affordable enough to me.

for me it wasn't speed (that's purely down to leg power anyway)

My reasons to justify a better bike
disc brakes - the most important reason
better hubs, BB and headset so they should last much longer
bomb proof wheels so should support my clyde ass better and not need truing so often
serviceable campagnolo brifters rather than shamino "replace the whole damn thing" ones
it'll pay for itself in 5 years if I commute 5 days a week (that's not hard and fast though but it is a nice round figure)
custom frame fit and color

I Googled your bike and it looks pretty decent. Do you keep the chain lubed and cleaned? That can make a big difference. If it hasn't had a tune up in a while it might help too.

I don't think you're going to see a huge difference in speed by spending more money, at least not for commuting.

A road bike will always be faster on the road than a mtb given the same rider. MTB's are heavy and if you're riding on paved roads you'd be better served with a road bike. However, since you state than most of your commute is on a river trail (I'm assuming it's unpaved) you'd probably be better off with a hybrid bike or just equipping you mtb with a smooth tread tire. If it's paved I'd go with a road bike.

The better road bikes ride better and you'll arrive less "jarred". Not noticible at first but after a few thousand miles on bike, your elbows, wrists, and knees will explain it in real-time. Better bikes need less "readjusting" because the components do what they were intended to do.

Not everyone needs a better bike. But if you put on alot of miles everyday a better bike is the way to go. Some folks have several bikes. When one is broken, they just ride another. I don't have that kind of bandwidth. My racing bike with a road-like wheel does it all.

The paint on the carbon frame hasn't held up as nice as other bikes but maybe it's because it was re-painted improperly by the previous owner.

There is a real difference. On a quality hybrid bike(specialized globe) I made it to work in around 45m-70m. On my cyclocross bike my times are 35m-50m. I havn't tried it on my MTB and I really don't want to. I havn't tried it on my Raleigh either but that thing is slower than my MTB...

A bridge that I crank up in 46x18 on my cannondale, I can fly up in 53x18 on a Specialized Tarmac. Pity the tarmac can't carry anything and can't use full fenders. I think if I actually tried my commute on a Tarmac I could probably make it in 30m. All these times are for about the same amount of effort of course and around 13 miles one way.

Sorry to disappoint you, Newtowheels, but a new bike won't make you noticeably faster. That's true for commuting and that's also true for racing... except that a 2-second difference often makes the difference between a first place and 50th place in the standings.

I don't know your bike model, but there are things you might be able to do to improve your ride:

– New tires. If you have knobby or wide tires, replace them with narrower high-pressure slicks. Something like 700x32 or 700x28 (narrower if you are light), or I think 27"x1 1/8 OR 1 1/4". Tires without sculptures run faster and are silent.

– Modifying gear ratios with a new freewheel if necessary.


As for buying a new bike, you might go for a touring or sports-touring bike (curved handlebars), or a good hybrid (straight bars). What would you get?

– Indexed shifting and shifters on the handlebars, which means you won't be looking for your shifters nor for the exact gear. Adjustment is more finicky, though.

– More gears, with a 9-speed rear wheel as opposed to the 5 or 6 speeds you currently have. So you will be able to fine-tune your gearing and this will provide you a small speed increase... and a great improvement in comfort.

– Better hubs. The hubs you have might not be well sealed, which means they are OK as long as they are regularly maintained. Newer hubs, especially the Shimano mountain series (LX, XT...) have seals that are very efficient at keeping the grit outside the hub.

– More rigid bike. Frames built 20-30 years ago were more flexible than modern ones. That's great if you travel without a significant load on a bumpy road, but if you start piling stuff on the rear rack, the bike will eventually feel like a wet noodle. So if you commute with full panniers, a new bike will be more rigid.

And then, you get all the subjective aspects:
– Better positioning: assuming the other one doesn't suit you perfectly.
– Comfort, which depends on bike geometry and tubing selection. Hard to be more specific, so you'll have to enquire.
–
The "nice-bike" effect.

Barring mechanical problems, any road bike with drops and slick tires will be just about as fast as any other, from a commuter's point of view. Of course ridden by the same guy the $2000 one may get there a minute quicker---to a racer that's huge, but to a commuter it's only the amount of time it takes to wait for a light to change. As a commuter, the way you will really save time is (1) by planning an efficient route (2) by having reliable components, solid wheels that stay true and good flat resistant tires, and maintaining your bike regularly to avoid breakdowns and inefficiency; and (3) by upgrading your engine :).

more reliable components, stronger wheels don't require truing so much, shifting is more reliable and consistent, ride is generally more enjoyable, etc.

Same as with everything (food, stereo equipment, cars), going up from the bottom end there is a noticeable difference. From there onwards is the usual law of diminishing returns.

sub-$100 is barf,
$400-$1500 is mid-range,
and from there on you wander into unobtanium territory

If you had a recumbent bike, you could definitely cover that distance in considerably better comfort and less overall exertion than you are now. Depending on which recumbent you picked, you could also average as much as 3-4 mph faster.

A "moderate" choice might be the RANS V2:
http://www.ransbikes.com/V2%202607.htm# (price=~$1600, ~2 mph faster is a typical gain over an upright)

A more extreme choice might would be a Challenge Fujin:
http://www.challenge-recumbents.com/...selectie=fujin (price=~$2600, 3-4 mph gain)

If you want a more comfortable/faster bicycle they're out there, but most LBS's don't know a thing about them.
~

I commute on a $5000 road bike. When it rains I ride a $600 single-speed with 75 inch gear. I am about 4 min faster on my road bike because it is stiffer, has a variety of gears and better wheels. (7 mile commute if I take the shortest route.)

My friend at work commutes on his only bicycle, a steel frame fixed gear conversion. (He bought the bike used in 1980's and re-built it from a 10 speed to a single speed.) He has ridden both of my bikes, and his comment that struck me was that he was "surprised" by how much it felt like "All of my efforts were translated into forward motion." I think it is a combination of my bikes being lighter, stiffer, and the lower rolling resistance of high pressure tires. He is now putting bids in on e-bay for road frames. Go figure!

I am convinced that the durability of expensive wheels and bikes is better than low priced ones.

Also, upper end bikes are easier to work on. The only tools I carry for my road bike is a 5mm and 6mm hex wrench.

For me, because cycling is my passion, I can justify top end. But my ride is only slightly better than the $1800 to $2500 range. The single biggest factor in enjoying a bicycle of these price ranges is fit. Seek out a bike shop that has training in bike fitting!

There is "durability", "inexpensive" and "light". You can only have two, your choice. I chose light and durable.

Tailwinds to ya! CS

The Schwinn looks like a pretty decent bike. A more expensive bike like the Madone is not going to be significantly faster unless you are doing alot of climbing (More expensive bikes are usually lighter). However a fast recumbent like this:
http://www.bacchettabikes.com/images...strada_med.jpg
Bacchetta Strada
or this:
http://www.challenge-recumbents.com/...ujin-klein.jpg
Challenge Fujin
Could make a couple MPH difference on a fast commute.
As always fitness levels make the biggest difference.
You can also try riding with aero bars which may improve your time some.

Craig

[edit] looks like Doug5150 beat me to the recommendations.

I think it's more like this:
sub $400 is of questionable durability and function, you're better off buying used
$400-$1000 shows promise, but choose carefully
$1000-$1500 has great durability and function
$1500+ is you treating yourself to a nice ride
Unobtanium is Sachs and Vanilla, 'cause there's a multi-year waiting list

It seems everyone has hit all the salient points on moving up the bicycle hierarchy. Now for something completely different.

The real benefits are that you'll look cooler and the cool bikers will be nicer to you -- and you'll get more chicks!!

As a newbie- a new bike won't help you nearly as much as getting your efficiency dialed in. My advice would be to run down this checklist (and everyone else's advice), commute on your current bike for a year or more, at least, then be in a good position to decide if a new bike is for you. (FWIW- Bicycling Magazine praised the hell out of a Schwinn Fastback in their annual bike review issue.)

- Make sure you're fit properly to the bike- if your seat is too high or low, you'll be wasting tons of efficiency. Get that saddle height dialed in, and think about the stem length as well.
- Have you tried clipless pedals? If not, then think about it.
- If you're comfortable, go one level skinnier on your tires- 28 seems to be a sweet spot for many commuters. Keep them aired up at all times.
- Keep the drivetrain clean, brakes firm, etc.

If you're mainly riding in the 42T ring, then you still have a whole 'nother chainring to work up to- that'd be the same regardless of what bike you have. Dropping 5lb off a bike isn't going to get you pushing 52x19 much sooner.

Work on the engine- if you upgrade too soon, you'll kick yourself in a year, when you have a better idea of what's important to you. (ie- maybe your best bet long term is a really good cyclocross or decent touring bike, possibly not from one of the major bike mfr's, but at this stage in the game you might be easily talked into a Madone/Tarmac/etc simply because it's on sale and that's what an LBS is pushing at the moment.)

reliability?
on my road bike I probably have 15k miles on completely original components (campy chorus & athena). The only thing I've replaced are cogs, chains, brake pads and wheels. The bike is about almost 20 years old.
my mtn bike shimano stuff seems like it's always being replaced, even the nicer xtr stuff.

I keep hearing that recumbents are faster. If so, then why am I always passing them, and they are never passing me (on a regular "upright" road bike)?

Life is too short to ride a crappy bike.

The bike is fairly new, and I have been lubing/cleaning the chain. I actually like the bike so far, everything works very well, it seems solid and of pretty good quality (shimano 105 for $570 :) ). So I'm not looking to change bikes to change bikes, I was just intrigued by everyone who would describe more expensive bikes as "soo fast". Luckily, I posted here before going out and spending a lot of money, instead I'll keep trying to get my legs in better "bike shape".

Thanks for the response.

The schwinn fastback is schwinn's "race geometry" road bike (I actually find it to be quite comfortable). I use 700x23 wheels which seem to work well (the river trail has a paved bike path, it's a bit poor in some spots but overall is fairly well paved). The bike have 27 gears (but I only seems to use 2-3, my route is pretty flat by California standards).

Engine makes a big difference too. :)

I'm surprised you could find enough 'bents in your area even for anecdotal evidence. In Toronto (which does have a fairly strong urban cycling culture) I see a 'bent maybe once or twice a month. I've never passed one on an upright bike, and one never passed me. I guess you would find some in some group rides though.

Other things being equal, 'bents are faster on level ground. It's no coincidence they've been banned from bicycle racing due to having an "unfair advantage". ;) On hills, however, they don't do as well as uprights.

Welcome! A newbie commuter and already doing 40 miles a day... wow :)

In your case, I'd say "Not really." You already have a Schwinn Fastback, which is a bike with a modern drivetrain and a fairly light frame. I would say the extremely important features for a commuter bike are comfort and reliability--especially when you're riding 40 miles a day!!!

In you case, the next most important things would be efficient riding position (properly sized and adjusted handlebars and saddle) and tires (slick and as narrow as you can stand).

In theory, race bikes should be more fragile... but in practice I have found this to be mostly only an issue with the wheels and STI shifters, and not with most other components. For example, 32/36 spoke wheels are definitely stronger than 16-spoke wheels. On the other hand, I have abused the hell out of a set of ultra-light 28 spoke Mavic wheels on my race bike and they have never given me any trouble at all. However, the performance difference from expensive wheels is pretty negligible unless you're holding a steady speed of 20+ mph.

As for tires, I find that 28 mm is about the thinnest that is comfortable and reliable for me. I am 165 pounds, and I ride on some rough roads and there's a lot of glass around here. I've found that switching to kevlar-belted tires has drastically reduced the number of flats that I get.

Yep.

By river bed bike trail do you mean rocky, muddy, or what? Do you really mean a river bed that is dry most of the time, like in the SW, or a (reclaimed) canal towpath like in the east, or a paved MUP like in Portland OR?