Adamjc86

I run through red lights, and cycle assertively. There is a study out there that shows that it is in fact safer to run red lights, and this is why more women gain injury, or die cycling than men, because women tend to obey the rules and the men flaunt them. You stay behind/next (or even in front of!) a car on a red light and you are in their blind spot.

I obviously don't go through reds on a junction - that's just silly, and endangers you.

Who cares about the law? If the law is there for safety, then fine - but a 20lb bike isn't going to kill anyone. It is a fact that if a cyclist hits a pedestrian at 30mph, the cyclist is more likely to die than the pedestrian.

knobster

For one, the police. They will cite you if they catch you running a red light. Car or bike, doesn't matter.

Adamjc86

Maybe in North Carolina mate, but not in Manchester, our police are usually quite good in that respect.

I run through reds all the time in front of police cars. I don't cycle dangerously - so why not .

At the end of the day, if you want to stop at reds then fine - if you want to run through reds, then OK. I don't get the whole massive furor about it to be honest.

knobster

Here I think it's more of if the police are busy or not. Or if they have a quota to meet. Probably not about safety.

Personally, I can't understand running red lights because I only have 1 on my route. If I had 3, 4, 10, I might think quite differently about it. Like you said, when it comes down to it, we're all responsible for our own safety. It's our choice to make.

JeffS

What you should do is make a list of everything you hate... I would say put it in your signature, but it'll be too long. Maybe create a website for it. Then, you can just setup an auto-responder to every thread that's posted with a link to your website. This should give you more time to harass some of the other groups that piss you off.

JeffS

I'm not one who cares how your actions reflect on me, but I'm also not a fan of anyone advocating breaking the law.

Are you really saying that a law can(should?) be ignored if doing so is not going to kill someone? That strikes out most every law on the books.

Although I've never been there, I'm sure traffic issues in the UK are much different than in the states - making it difficult to accurately compare experiences.

- oh, and I still think this should have been moved to A&S.

SSP

When you make statements like the following, you sound very upset and condescending towards others and their cycling interests:

Adamjc86

I don't mean "do what you want because who gives a crap about anyone else", that's totally not how I live my life - I try and adhere to the Golden Rule as much as possible. But if people are going to get shirty off a cyclist going through a red (when it is safe to do so), then I don't get the deal.

It may be as you say - different in different countries. (I tend to only run through reds at a pedestrian crossing, I don't know if you have them in the states, I'll find out next year...).

Personally I think using hand-signals are far more important than whether to run through a red light or not... and hang-signals aren't a legal requirement to cycle!

lil brown bat

Ok. First of all, to Apnu and several others...the word you want is flout, not flaunt. Please, look it up, because you're saying something very different from what you think you're saying.

Second, that's an empirical 99%, right? Not a rhetorical exaggeration? And that "zero attention", that's also empirical, right? And the "every stop sign and red light"? You've got hard data for all of that? No? Look, these kind of exaggerated and absolutist statements add nothing to a discussion that probably has no place on the Commuting forum anyway. A bit of ranting here and there isn't over the top, but neither this forum nor any other is anyone's personal ranting playground, so treat it with respect. Don't start a thread that's nothing but a rant. If you want to raise an issue, raise an issue, in an appropriate forum, and in a manner that can lead to productive discussion. Identify the problem -- be specific and don't try to amplify your point by making crap up. Talk about what you have actually observed, and if you're going to toss around numbers and percentages and "alwayses" and "nevers", make sure that reality is backing you up. Only then do you have any hope of beginning a productive discussion.

Apnu

I have at least 10 when I ride on Chicago streets. Thankfully we have a Mayor right now that is very pro-cycling. He's installed a ton of miles of bike lanes all over the city. I'm lucky that I can plan my route to, mostly, ride in a bike lane for the majority of my commute. So when I come to a light I don't have to hang out in traffic with cars. I can move up to the line for the light and be seen by all the motorists. Plus, I go out of my way to stay away from blind spots. Unless some dummy in a car is pacing me, I can usually avoid the blind spot.

Yes its about choice, weather or not to obey the rules of the road as they are in your specific area. I've never contested that. What I don't want is to be lumped in a category with cyclists that I don't belong to. I disagree with people who run lights and signs, but I'm not going to stop them. I don't confront them when on the road about it, and I don't even react when they do it.

I follow the rules of the road and if that means a longer commute so be it. I work with that, I know that my commute is going to take me 40 minutes, plus 10 minutes of packing up time to get into my building and to my desk. So I leave early, I adjust my schedule to meet the demands of getting to work and cycling. That's a part of commuting by bike. It requires a lot of preparation and time to do it.

But what I see are a lot of bike commuters that aren't riding or preparing properly, IMO. They're just tossing on some tee-shirt and random shorts, hopping on a knobby wheeled hardtail mountain bike and pedalling fast to work. Others are roadies that added a backpack are are sprinting to work. And still others are folks wearing their basic work clothes on a comfort bike and the meander to work lazily. Most of these folks are going to go away when the summer ends (Except for me and the roadies probably). All in all, most of these people are rushing to work the same way everybody else rushes to work by bus, train and frequently, car.

That's probably the problem there.... rushing to work. I think if people allotted more time and thought into their bike commute they'd have room to have a bit of patience at lights and signs. That's the key, patience. Most people don't have it. Including myself. Losing my patience is what started my rant in the first place.

aMull

I'm with you.

Adamjc86

I think you are generalising a great many people, Apnu. I wear a basic tee with a pair of 3/4's on my commute, and I've been commuting for a year now - nearly every day, I might have missed a day or two (being ill, etc). The clothes you wear, and the bike you ride doesn't slot you into an allocated type of person .

Running through red lights has nothing to do with being late for me. Me and my fellow commuter are always in about 30 minutes before everyone else! I run through red lights because the amount of energy and effort it takes to go from 0-20mph is significant enough for me to run through reds. Obviously everyone else has a different reason.

And for motorists who hate all cyclists, regardless of whether they have run through reds or not? Get a life. I always, always, always, every single day have to watch out of stupid, irresponsible motorists who come very close to causing accidents, yet I do not tar all motorists as bad! (Partially because I am one ).

I-Like-To-Bike

Really? Maybe in North Carolina during eclipses of the moon. Elsewhere, seldom are the police that anal.

I-Like-To-Bike

Yep that's your opinion, about which bicycling commuters are commuting properly (i.e. yourself) or not properly (i.e. almost everybody else by wearing regular clothes, riding the "wrong" kind of bike or riding too slow to suit you).

IMO this OP and discussion belongs in some place where pompous experts can rant about all the improper cycling they observe. And where they can pin medals on themselves and their high horse.

Adamjc86

You mean like this?

Apnu

Perhaps I am generalizing. Its not meant to insult. It just that it appears to me that many commuters I see are rushing around. It looks to me that bike commuters aren't putting a lot of thought into their commute. Appearance and truth are not always the same thing. Perhaps they are seasoned commuters, perhaps not. Probably, there is a mixture of both. Since I can't read their minds, I can't say what the truth is. But, I suspect, the truth is different for each person.

But I think you missed my point. I cited several groups of riders that I see on my daily ride, I'm sure you've seen them too. But they all have ignored the rules of the road, set down by the law of my county (Cook). I was basically trying to say that it doesn't matter what kind of rider, most seem to ignore the rules of the road. And I feel that's harmful to cycling.

But it is the choice of every rider (casual or not) to follow the rules of the road. Sometimes I think there is a bit of a lemming factor as well. I see one biker go at a lull in traffic and frequently the other riders follow. On Monday I saw this very thing which prompted me to post this in the first place. 9 of us were at a light (Ohio and Wells, on Wells) and there was a lull. One guy decided to run it, and the other 7 followed him in a ragged line. Well a couple of cabbies were speeding down Ohio they had to be moving around 40 MPH and nearly wiped out the last two riders. They didn't even slow down! All this took place in about 10 seconds I think.

That's why I follow the rules of the road. I used to run lights all the time, but I nearly got clobbered by Navy Pier one day running a light and vowed never to make my wife a widow and my son an orphan.

When I talk about thoughtless biking, that's what I mean. I'm sorry for not making that clear.

Adamjc86

That's fair enough, my first epiphany whilst cycling was hitting the front of a car at 20 and somersaulting over the bonnet (hood). I now light my bike up so much it looks like a second sun.

But surely, it should be a cyclists personal preference whether to run reds or not, if they want to break the law, then let them. (I do on a daily basis).

invisiblehand

This is the right strategy, in my opinion. I would describe it as following the spirit of the rules.

invisiblehand

I thought that there was a blip in the paper regarding how the huge chaotic traffic circles in DC have fewer accidents than many "safe" intersections with traffic lights. My impression is that because they are viewed as more dangerous, motorists are more attentive and careful resulting in less accidents.

Hmmm, can't find the article now.

sherab08

I am new to this forum, but I will put in my 2 cents.
I try to ride in my own safety zone, not someone else's.
Just like driving a car, I can only control my actions.
Other people will ride/drive any way they want (and do), but hopefully they take personal responsibility for their own actions.

You go on ahead, I'll notify your next of kin.

Apnu

Thanks for your thoughts. And that's a wise riding choice you've made. I like it, it is simple and concise.

chipcom 

Care to post the name and/or a link to that study?

YuriB

here in phx there is rarely any traffic enforcement for motorized vehicles which is why we have a HUGE number of people running red lights in cars (maybe not why but it certainly contributes) which can make going on a green even more dangerous than running an empty red. i run lights when i feel it puts me in a safer position than getting hit by a potential red light runner or sitting at an intersection that is simply very dangerous.
in the end i do what i feel makes me the most safe.

rhm

I'd be curious to see the respective statistics on various intersections including, particularly, Chevy Case Circle, one of the worst offenders, which was near where I grew up. I always went through Chevy Chase Circle very carefully (and very quickly!), and never had any problem. Most drivers know what to do, behave predictably, and get through without incident or delay. But out-of-towners couldn't handle it at all, and could cause serious traffic jams, usually because they failed to observe the rule that governs the chaos there, which is to keep going at a steady speed if at all possible. It was there, in 1978, that I had my first, and so far last, collision with a car while riding to school on my then new Raleigh Record ten speed. It was the first time I rode in the rain; a car with out-of-town plates stopped, and I, not knowing what brakes do (or don't do) in the rain, ran right into it. Going through Chevy Chase Circle for the first time could be a formative experience for any driver or cyclist; but there were remarkably few accidents, even fender-benders.

There were, however, a regrettable number of fatalities, usually at night when there is little traffic, and someone driving down Connecticut Ave would somehow fail to see the huge yellow signs and drive straight into a huge oak tree at full speed.

bikedaddy

There is an intersection on my commute where I often run the red due because the sensors won't trip. I am going straight. There is also a heavily used RTOL which prevents me from sneaking over to press the pedestrian button. On the opposite side of the intersection there is always left turning traffic. They will get the green arrow and I will sneak acroos the intersection after their lane in cleared. This morning I screwed up and went through after the green arrow had turned red. Nearly got creamed by a mini-van and large construction truck.

This is mostly just an example of me being an idiot (actually entirely) but it also makes me realize that I need to quit being so stupid and pay attention. Also maybe we need to lobby for better sensors at intersections. In a city with as many bicycles as this one we should be able to trip a light safely.


Also to the poster who said that it is safer running lights/signs I would love to see the study. I also find your claim regarding women cycling to be questionable and was wondering if anyone else could back this up.