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LHT vs. Kogswell...

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Old 09-07-07, 01:52 PM
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eyemgh
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LHT vs. Kogswell...

I know this has been touched on before in various different contexts, but I'm still conflicted. I want to do a dedicated commuter that I can also do loaded multi-day rides on (only from the house and not out somewhere in BFE <g>). I also want it to have a dyno based light attached to a sturdy front rack, maybe with two front units. I'll still use my NightRider helmet mount, but I want something that always works and isn't dependant on battery charge. Lastly, I want full time fenders that have dedicated mounts, so I don't have to put up with the squeeky rigged fenders on a standard road bike. I find myself attracted to both the Surly LHT and the Kogswell P/R. Help me decide!!! Thanks.

M
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Old 09-07-07, 06:04 PM
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You said sturdy front rack. That pretty much says Kogswell.
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Old 09-07-07, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by K6-III View Post
You said sturdy front rack. That pretty much says Kogswell.
Why so K6? You can mount as sturdy a front rack as you like on an LHT. No? I think the Surly "Nice Rack" would be a good choice for example. And I don't think the Kogs comes stock with the front rack. Does it?

They're both great bikes and you'd probably do well with either of 'em eyemgh. The Kogs is 650B and the Surly is 700C. If you don't have a preference, I'd say its a toss-up.
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Old 09-07-07, 06:36 PM
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The Kogswell doesn't come with the front rack, but you can get a rack painted to match.

What is really good about the Kogswell is that the fork rake is designed with carrying a large load up front in mind.



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Old 09-07-07, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by K6-III View Post
The Kogswell doesn't come with the front rack, but you can get a rack painted to match.

What is really good about the Kogswell is that the fork rake is designed with carrying a large load up front in mind.
Good points. And that is a nice looking rack. I doubt you could find one much sturdier than that!
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Old 09-07-07, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Quickbeam View Post
Why so K6? You can mount as sturdy a front rack as you like on an LHT. No? I think the Surly "Nice Rack" would be a good choice for example. And I don't think the Kogs comes stock with the front rack. Does it?

They're both great bikes and you'd probably do well with either of 'em eyemgh. The Kogs is 650B and the Surly is 700C. If you don't have a preference, I'd say its a toss-up.
The 59cm version of the P/R (the most popular size) comes in three wheel sizes:

650B, 700C and 26" (559).

And when it comes to carrying a load on the front...





it has no peer.






.
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Old 09-07-07, 08:55 PM
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Kogwell PR questions...

Is the geometry of the PR 59cm with 559 wheels instead of 650B similar to the dimensions in the Kogswell website shown for the 650B? I want 559 / 26" wheels cause emergency spare tires, tubes or rims are the most common to find in out of the way places, especially if I use the bike in countries outside North America or western Europe. 650B, too hard to find. Fat 700C tires or touring rims, also very scarce.
I read the articles about the different PR forks in the website. Seems like the verdict favors the 40 cm fork for loaded front rack riding, which is what I would use if for with 26x1.75 tires.
Does PR have vertical rear dropouts?
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Old 09-07-07, 10:49 PM
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I have test ridden both and preferred the Kogswell. It's a very cool bike. My only concern would be with the wheels on an extended tour. The LHT is cool too though. The stock package is very smartly speced. I preferred the ride of the Kogswell - a bit sportier. The LHT has a really "on rails" feel which would be great when loaded.

The PR has horizontal drops - at least the ones I've seen.
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Old 09-07-07, 11:03 PM
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I own and love the LHT, and it is wonderful. I don't ride any of my other bikes, because I have dedicated road and mountain wheelsets, now. Having said that, the Kogswell is the shiznit and Kogswell is an actual presence on these forums who answers questions in a very helpful manner. Trek, Gary Fisher and even Surly and Rivendell do not do this.

If you do get the Kogswell, post about it so I can live vicariously through you for a bit, cuz I am too broke to buy one.
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Old 09-07-07, 11:03 PM
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I'm not sure how to size the Kogswell. I ride a 56 TT on my road bike, but that's with drop bars and a 110 stem. Since I'd like to use the bars pictured on the Kogswell first page on the web, would I go w/ the longer TT? I'm scared to go as short as 54, but I don't want it too big either. What's the prefered 650b tire? Also, I doubt I'll ever do mega loaded front carrying, but the option is pretty cool. What's the best all around fork for riding loaded or unloaded and rarely if ever loaded w/ hay? Thanks.

M

P.S. Matt, I've got a call in.
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Old 09-08-07, 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by zephyr View Post
Kogwell PR questions...

Is the geometry of the PR 59cm with 559 wheels instead of 650B similar to the dimensions in the Kogswell website shown for the 650B?


Keep in mind that the 559 version is available only in 59cm size.

Yes, the geometry is the same. The BB is a little higher to since 26x1.75 tires are a bit smaller in OD.


I want 559 / 26" wheels cause emergency spare tires, tubes or rims are the most common to find in out of the way places, especially if I use the bike in countries outside North America or western Europe. 650B, too hard to find. Fat 700C tires or touring rims, also very scarce.


We struggle with wheel size. 650A and 650B both offer good tires and they work for lots of uses.

But you can't beat 559 for availability.


I read the articles about the different PR forks in the website. Seems like the verdict favors the 40 cm fork for loaded front rack riding, which is what I would use if for with 26x1.75 tires.


Yep. Loads up to 20 lbs can be managed with the 30 and above that the 40 works better.


Does PR have vertical rear dropouts?


Nope. We use short horizontals with a special profile that aids in removing the wheel when fenders are being used. The feature set of the P/R was and continues to be driven by the user community. We asked and they wanted horizontals. And then they asked for horizontals that worked better with fenders, so we made some modifications.

Lots of owners end up using internal gear rear hubs and the horizontals make that possible. And lots of owners also use fixed gear rear wheels, at least some of the time (winter) and there too the horizontals out well.

..
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Old 09-08-07, 03:43 AM
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Originally Posted by eyemgh View Post
I'm not sure how to size the Kogswell. I ride a 56 TT on my road bike, but that's with drop bars and a 110 stem. Since I'd like to use the bars pictured on the Kogswell first page on the web, would I go w/ the longer TT? I'm scared to go as short as 54, but I don't want it too big either. What's the prefered 650b tire? Also, I doubt I'll ever do mega loaded front carrying, but the option is pretty cool. What's the best all around fork for riding loaded or unloaded and rarely if ever loaded w/ hay? Thanks.

M

P.S. Matt, I've got a call in.
Sizing is an interesting issue. Those who deal in bicycles have traditionally used formulas as an aid in fitting.

Over the years we've found that bicycles (and the equipment for many other activities/sports) are fitted best when we look at the individual who is using them.

Take skiing for example. A novice does well with shorter skis. They're easier to learn to use. As your experience grows, you can handle longer skis easier and you may choose to use them for certain kinds of skiing.

Bicycling is the same. We talk to people who have WIDE ranges of experience. Neophytes need careful attention and their needs tend to evolve rapidly. And salty old veterans can interpret geometry diagrams and size themselves correctly.

And because of this, we don't post a lot of geometries and formulas. We wait for folks to contact us and then we look at what they're doing very carefully. Often this works against us. We hear a lot of comments about how there's no information on the web site. And it doesn't scale well either. We'd sell a lot more stuff if we let people push buttons. But push-button solutions are often sub-optimal and we feel that it's better to have fewer well-fit owners than more ill-fit ones.

So you won't get a Kogswell frameset from us without talking to us. And it may take a while for us to talk to you because we're busy working with customers who have called in or emailed us earlier.

But there is a way to get started. The first thing to do is to take a couple of simple measurements. They're shown here:



We call the dimension in red the saddle-height. It's the distance from the center of the bottom bracket to the top of the saddle.

We call the dimension in blue the compartment. It's the distance from the center saddle to the intersection of the stem and bars.

Most people have their saddle set to a comfortable height. It's easy to do and most people have it optimized. So there's not a lot you have to do except find a bike that's comfortable and measure it.

For the compartment we ask people to give us this measurement and then we ask them to discuss how that's working for them at the moment. We ask a very basic question: how would you like that dimension to change? Do you want the bars closer or higher or what. This often leads to a discussion of bars as well. And nine times in ten we find that folks already have an idea of how they'd like to change their compartment.

The other thing that we hear again and again is that folks want take steps to ensure that their new bike fits them well.

That's why we go to the trouble of working with each customer individually.

And that's why we spend time writing about it. It's crucial, essential.

Which just leaves 650B tire and forks to talk about.

The Panaracer Col de la Vie is a good starting point for 650B tires. It doesn't cost a lot and it offers a heaping dose of 650B goodness.

And for forks we recommend the 30mm fork for lightly loaded bikes and the 40 for heavier loads. But we'll cover that more when you call.
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Old 09-08-07, 03:58 AM
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Originally Posted by KrisPistofferson View Post
I own and love the LHT, and it is wonderful. I don't ride any of my other bikes, because I have dedicated road and mountain wheelsets, now. Having said that, the Kogswell is the shiznit and Kogswell is an actual presence on these forums who answers questions in a very helpful manner. Trek, Gary Fisher and even Surly and Rivendell do not do this.

If you do get the Kogswell, post about it so I can live vicariously through you for a bit, cuz I am too broke to buy one.

Yeah, we do business in our own -special- way. We're trying to put patient, thoughtful people on top of seriously good bikes. And we do it one customer at a time.

Because cycling is serious business. And if you want to take it seriously, we're here to help.

And in Rivendell's defense, I've called there a half dozen times and each time I've been given good advice in a helpful, friendly, patient manner. The communication medium is different, but the commitment to serious cycling is the same.
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Old 09-08-07, 12:18 PM
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I tried to get a Kogswell, and I was very serious about it. I sold my Gunnar so that I could afford it, and I emailed Matthew, and he had a question for me about size, and I answed it, but then Matthew wouldn't return any of my further emails, so eventually I gave up and got something else. I guess that I wasn't Kogswell worthy. It was a bummer for me.

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Old 09-08-07, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ScituateJohn View Post
I tried to get a Kogswell, and I was very serious about it. I sold my Gunnar so that I could afford it, and I emailed Matthew, and he had a question for me about size, and I answered it, but then Matthew wouldn't return any of my further emails, so eventually I gave up and got something else. I guess that I wasn't Kogswell worthy. It was a bummer for me.
Oops.

Sorry.

John M?

76 saddle. 74 compartment?
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Old 09-08-07, 03:07 PM
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Well, as much as I like the Kogswell, I pushed the button on an LHT frame and fork today. First, my LBS gave me a nice deal and I like keeping my money in town. Next, I didn't want to have different sized tires than my son in case we overnight together. Last, and not an insignificant least, I called Kogswell and didn't get a call back. As much as I like supporting new companies with good ideas, I just didn't know if I'd ever hear back, so I went LHT. Thanks for the advice! (Sorry, Matt).

M
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Old 09-18-07, 12:51 PM
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What is the availability of the Kogswells in Canada? I checked the only Canadian dealer listed on the site and their web site didn't even mention Kogswell.
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