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Decisions...

Old 09-19-07, 01:48 PM
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Decisions...

What would you do...

I have two choices to get to work:

Choice 1: 13 miles each way, go along side a highway and then a major 2-lane road.
MAPQUEST#1

Choice 2: 9 miles each way, straight dart to work on 1 minor road...
Here's the kicker, it goes through one of the worst neighborhoods on Long Island, Wyandanch.
MAPQUEST#2

Maybe... Choice 2 in the morning, Choice 1 at night...
This is my first commuting trip ever so your advice will be GREATLY appreciated!

Joe
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Old 09-19-07, 01:52 PM
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Choice one...
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Old 09-19-07, 01:55 PM
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If you start going with Option 2, you will get in shape really fast, as you'll probably want to stay above 20 mph!
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Old 09-19-07, 01:56 PM
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At first glance I'd say choice 1, but personally I'd be more inclined just to ride each of them and make a decision on that basis. One thing I've noticed about most cities is that the "bad" areas are never as bad as people make out, and the "good" areas are never as good as people make out. It's just a function of tabloid culture.
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Old 09-19-07, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris L
At first glance I'd say choice 1, but personally I'd be more inclined just to ride each of them and make a decision on that basis. One thing I've noticed about most cities is that the "bad" areas are never as bad as people make out, and the "good" areas are never as good as people make out. It's just a function of tabloid culture.

Please don't take this the wrong way but I'm genuinely sincere when I say, you don't know Wyandanch...

I think I'll drive both trips with my car (because I use a different trip right now for my car) and see how they look from a vehicle first, then I'll move on to my bike.
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Old 09-19-07, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Diretemus
Please don't take this the wrong way but I'm genuinely sincere when I say, you don't know Wyandanch...
No offence taken. If you've been through the area you're obviously better qualified to comment. I was referring more to a general pheonomenon that I've experienced (perhaps more relevant to touring than commuting) where people people consistently tell me that an area is supposedly a "bad" area, but I've had more crime perpetuated against me in the supposedly "good" areas.
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Old 09-19-07, 02:45 PM
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I had a similar choice when planning out my commute route. The shortest route took me through the north end of Hartford which is the wrong area for me to be riding through.

I opted for a slightly longer route.
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Old 09-19-07, 02:58 PM
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Those are some pretty big cemeteries on route 2 in addition to Wyandanch (low income, high dropout , high crime rate area )
Not that I'm worried about ghosts, although on a full moon it can be creapy, but at night in my experience they seem to be a magnet for trouble makers and as a bicycle you become a fun target.
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Old 09-20-07, 06:45 AM
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I find that riding through the "wrong" part of town is not really a problem. Perhaps it's because I dress like a homeless person when I'm on the bike but I find people generally leave me alone. You're on a bike how much could you really have that some thug wants? I've riden through the worst parts of Boston, MA; Buffalo, NY; and Washington DC and never had a problem. You may also find that the more you ride through the less likely you are to have a problem. In my experience once you become part of the scenery it's almost like the "bad people" accept that you're going to be there.
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Old 09-20-07, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris L
No offence taken. If you've been through the area you're obviously better qualified to comment. I was referring more to a general pheonomenon that I've experienced (perhaps more relevant to touring than commuting) where people people consistently tell me that an area is supposedly a "bad" area, but I've had more crime perpetuated against me in the supposedly "good" areas.
I've lived and spent plenty of time walking or biking through so-called "bad" areas, without consequence. That's not to say that there aren't areas that are better of avoided, but I agree with Chris, a lot of places get painted as "bad" by people who don't really know what they're talking about. If it's your personal judgment based on experience that a place is sketchy and you'd rather avoid it, that's one thing, but if it's hearsay, I'd be skeptical.
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Old 09-20-07, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Diretemus
What would you do...

I have two choices to get to work:

Choice 1: 13 miles each way, go along side a highway and then a major 2-lane road.
MAPQUEST#1

Choice 2: 9 miles each way, straight dart to work on 1 minor road...
Here's the kicker, it goes through one of the worst neighborhoods on Long Island, Wyandanch.
MAPQUEST#2

Maybe... Choice 2 in the morning, Choice 1 at night...
This is my first commuting trip ever so your advice will be GREATLY appreciated!

Joe

Here's my recent experience. I've been through some pretty rough areas in St. Louis and never had a problem. However, a big part of my enjoyment of commuting is being relaxed and enjoying the ride. I feel the same way in a potentially dangerous neighborhood as I feel on a busy 4 lane during rush hour - anxious. So, whenever I can avoid either, I do.

Tom
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Old 09-20-07, 08:55 AM
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ah, 'bad neighbourhoods'. i'd suggest, even if just for entertainment value, picking up a copy of 'bomb the suburbs' or 'no more prisons' by william upski. part of his deal was growing up as a rich white kid in chicago and deciding, later on in life, to just go and walk through the worst neighbourhoods in america at night. he comes to a lot of conclusions about how fear and distrust based on class and race and geography create neighbourhood stigmas and the urban/suburban divide, but the bottom line is: hundreds of walks through the worst neighbourhoods in the country and zero incidents.

not that i'm encouraging you to take a commute you're not comfortable with, mind you. comfort is important.
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Old 09-20-07, 11:33 AM
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I responded to you in the other post.

You would be better served by going north and head east on Ruland road to Colonial Springs Road to Nichols Road then south on Commack road to Long Island Ave if the neighborhood is of concern. I'm not sure about the section of Nichols Road between Conklin/Main Street and Straight Path Road as far as the neighborhood is concerned. If you need to avoid this section then head east on Main to Old Country road until you reach Carls Straight Path. You should drive it in you car first.

In your previous post you did not mention whether neighborhoods should be avoided, so I gave you a direct route (2). Heading North to Ruland on 110 or Republic Rd will bypass Wyndanch and you'll be traveling though Wheatley Heights on mostly local roads. Option 1 is not a very good route because you have to cross over the Southern State and Sunrise Hwy and the 231 interchange with cars merging at 55mph.

If you don't want to go through Wheatley Heights then you are better off going all the way up to the 495 Expressway service road and head East until Carl's Straight Path to Nichols Road east and South on Commack Rd until Long Island Ave.

Last edited by kgatwork; 09-20-07 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 09-20-07, 11:40 AM
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+ 1 on the bad neighborhoods not being so bad. I used to commute through Bushwick and Bed-Stuy in Brooklyn, and you'd best believe I was the only 6'5" white guy on a bicycle. I got some looks, to be sure, but there was never any drama. Most of the time, it's just a question of accepting the fact that you will stand out a little bit and remembering that there's no sensible reason why any person can't walk or ride anywhere he wants. When I ride around Hartford these days, I get lots of looks and comments, but they're mostly just goofy (the other day I had to go to a meeting downtown in a suit, and a teenager on Park Street said, "Yo, papi, what happened to your car? You got the three-piece suit and you riding a bike?!" I just laughed and said, "Gas is too ******** expensive," and it was all good). If ever we're going to break down race and class barriers, we have to put ourselves out there a little and push the envelope of our comfort. That said, if you want to get more exercise by going a few extra miles, don't deprive yourself out of liberal guilt.
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Old 09-24-07, 06:39 PM
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Ya Tu Sabes,

Park Street isn't that bad. Lena's is great for pizza! I work on Asylum Hill and the shortest route for me would have been right out Garden and through some of the other neighborhoods up there.
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Old 09-24-07, 06:56 PM
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My bike commute is thru the Far Rockaway's, but in 10 years I have NEVER had a negative encounter with local residents. Possibly as I'm south of the A train subway and away from the projects (by a block). For a few years - when the Marine Parkway bridge was under repair, I commuted due east thru Brooklyn thru 2 areas with housing projects and never had a problem in these area's either.

Your route could be a block from a troubled corner and you might never know there's a problem. You also might well be a target for a robber using a car while a block from your home. Recall the incident in Lynbrook a few years back where some gang members robbed and killed a guy in his yard while he was walking home fron the LIRR in a nice neighborhood.

I agree with others that a bike commuter seemingly is a fleeting target and not the "usual" kind of target for a mugging. Pedestrians and cars stopped at lights seemed to more favored.

I would certainly drive the route a few times at the times you expect to be riding thru to get a feel for the area.

FWIW, I too would not ca
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Old 09-24-07, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Diretemus
What would you do...

I have two choices to get to work:

Choice 1: 13 miles each way, go along side a highway and then a major 2-lane road.
MAPQUEST#1

Choice 2: 9 miles each way, straight dart to work on 1 minor road...
Here's the kicker, it goes through one of the worst neighborhoods on Long Island, Wyandanch.
MAPQUEST#2

Maybe... Choice 2 in the morning, Choice 1 at night...
This is my first commuting trip ever so your advice will be GREATLY appreciated!

Joe
See This:
https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/346822-wtf-wrong-people.html
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Old 09-24-07, 07:01 PM
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My bike commute is thru the Far Rockaway's, but in 10 years I have NEVER had a negative encounter with local residents. Possibly as I'm south of the A train subway tracks and away from the projects (by a block). For a few years - when the Marine Parkway bridge was under repair, I commuted due east thru Brooklyn thru 2 areas with housing projects and never had a problem in these area's either.

Your route could be a block from a troubled corner and you might never know there's a problem. You also might well be a target for a robber using a car while a block from your home. Recall the incident in Lynbrook a few years back where some gang members robbed and killed a guy in his yard after he had just walked home from the LIRR (in a nice neighborhood).

I agree with others that a bike commuter seemingly is a fleeting target and not the "usual" kind of target for a mugging. Pedestrians and cars stopped at lights seemed to more favored.

I would certainly drive the route a few times at the times you expect to be riding thru to get a feel for the area.

FWIW, It would be fine by me if my commute was extended from 10 miles to 15 or 17 (extending up into the Wheatley Heights/Dix Hills area as others have suggested), it just takes a bit more time and it's all time on the bike.

SB
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Old 09-24-07, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve B.
I would certainly drive the route a few times at the times you expect to be riding thru to get a feel for the area.
I don't think driving gives that much of a feel for the area. In fact, even biking doesn't quite do it... for me anyway.

A few weeks ago I walked through a neighbourhood of Toronto called Cabbagetown. I ride through Cabbagetown a lot, and it always seemed like a pretty cool and interesting neighbourhood to me. It's a real weird mix of million-dollar homes and social housing in the area... pretty neat. Anyway, since I ride through it so much, I knew there was a mix of quite rich and very poor around there, but as I walked around it, I was completely amazed at how dingy, sad and run-down much of the area looked, how many homeless there are, how much garbage, and how many times I was approached by panhandlers and startled by crazies yelling things. I never noticed any of this when I just biked through. I did notice that it wasn't the poshest place around... and that's about it.
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Old 09-24-07, 08:24 PM
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I've ridden through a lot of bad neighborhoods. Seems like afternoon is the worst time. I haven't had problems in the morning or at night. But all the trouble I've had was in the afternoon. My theory is that in the morning, bad boys are asleep, and at night, they are busy partying or just that the bike is less noticeable.

Just my experience.
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Old 09-24-07, 08:33 PM
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I've ridden through some of the more interesting areas in the Denver metro area for the last few years with a few incidents. These issues have occurred in the same area along the same small portion of a trail. However, I do not know what is wrong with me lately but that area is positively creeping me out. Granted the worst instance was last Thursday and I was completely exhausted. On the ride home in the dark I was just about ready to jump out of my skin. For one i need a better light.

I would think that generally these supposedly bad areas are not that bad. The exception seems to be various isolated trails. I think it is time to look into a street route to replace that section of the trail for me.
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Old 09-24-07, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by chephy
A few weeks ago I walked through a neighbourhood of Toronto called Cabbagetown. <snip>I was completely amazed at how dingy, sad and run-down much of the area looked, how many homeless there are, how much garbage, and how many times I was approached by panhandlers and startled by crazies yelling things.
i know *exactly* what you're talking about. in the eighties my parents basically forbade me from going down to cabbagetown. they billed it as, basically, the harlem of canada. they wouldn't even drive through it. so, being a teen, of course i went. and was amazed at two things: 1. poverty. growing up white and middle class i'd never seen it before outside of tv. it was kind of a shock, especially since the canadian middle class likes to tell themselves the comfortable lie that urban poverty is a uniquely american problem. 2. no one killed me. or even threatened me. in fact, i came to the conclusion that what made middle class folks uncomfortable about cabbagetown was their self-realization of the disparity between them as wealthy outsiders and the local residents as some sort of threatening, faceless, incomprehensible brood.

anyway, since then i've lived in some 'bad' neighbourhoods, most notably 97st in edmonton aka 'boyle street', and i bike every day through calgary's vic park (rip. it's all condo construction now) and i have had pretty much zero problems.
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Old 09-25-07, 07:30 AM
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I think my username commits me to choice #2.
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Old 09-25-07, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by frymaster
i know *exactly* what you're talking about. in the eighties my parents basically forbade me from going down to cabbagetown. they billed it as, basically, the harlem of canada. they wouldn't even drive through it. so, being a teen, of course i went. and was amazed at two things: 1. poverty. growing up white and middle class i'd never seen it before outside of tv. it was kind of a shock, especially since the canadian middle class likes to tell themselves the comfortable lie that urban poverty is a uniquely american problem. 2. no one killed me. or even threatened me.
Actually, I think it improved since the 80's, as in "some rich people moved in". But poor people didn't move out. It's a strange, strange place. I like it.

And it's true, no one ever threatened me in any way there - whether I was on foot or on a bike. Heck, I walk and ride a lot on the southern edge of Regent Park which has to be the baddest 'hood in downtown Toronto. No trouble of any kind (knocks on wood).
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