Maybe the other 100k were shot dead?

Just thought that was funny :)

Not sure what you find ad hominem in my statement, 6 Jours, although yours does seem to qualify. Now, if I were to say something like

Look, you're not mentally nimble enough to pull this off. You've got your NRA talking points — "guns are tools" — but nowhere to go from there.


that would be more of an ad hominem attack.

It was the part that went something like "You are lying".

But I see that you guys are really pulling out all the stops on this one. I can't wait for the rest of the braintrust to show up so I can hear about how my mother wears combat boots.

SixJours, clearly you're not reading. At several points I conceded that if you want to call an olympian's target rifle a tool, that's fine. But again, those types of rifles are the exception. 98% don't buy for target use. They buy a gun for personal protection/home defense/hunting. Those uses are weapons. I am not saying that all guns are weapons, just 98% of them. ;) Claiming that they are all tools, based on the 2% that are, is ridiculous. It's the mark of weak attempt at rebranding something and the hallmark of the NRA lemmings.

Saying that your argument lacks logic is not a personalizing attack or personalizing anything. It's a statement of opinion. Sorry. That you have to use commentary like "p1ss off" is indicative of your inability to lay out a logical argument.

Have you taken logic and/or stats? If not go back and do so.

OK I give, not only weapons not tools, firearms are weapons of mass destrtuction. Not tools, not even inanimate objects. GUNS ARE JUST WEAPONS. Mean weapons. Bad weapons.......lighten up you guys, it is almsot time to go home.

Really? Now it all makes sense. :D

Dont talk about nobodies MaMa!

Well I am stuck at work for a while, so.. I noticed eiarler on the last page someone called brains and strong legs weapons. I dont think they are. I think they are body parts. Not weapons, not tools but body parts.

Tool or weapon? Hmmmm... Remember when Homer thought Bart was gay so he tried forcing him to shoot a deer because he was convinced that would "fix" him? I guess in that case the gun was both tool and weapon! :p

Assuming that the percentages are important, I suppose you have a source for your numbers? And what of the fact that 99.99999% of shots fired by civilians in America are not at live targets?

I'd rather be an NRA lemming that an HCI shill.:p

If you'd just said that my argument lacks logic you'd have a point. "If you can't acknowledge that you ought to go back and retake stats and logic", however, is not an attack on my argument but my ability to think logically. And if "a statement of opinion" is a defense, then "In my opinion (insert name here) is a worthless piece of crap" wouldn't be ad-hom.

Again, this is ad-hominem, just like "Have you taken logic and/or stats? If not go back and do so".

I'd say that this is indicative of your inability to debate without making it about the debaters, but that would be so perfectly circular that we might implode or something.

I really do think this subject has been discussed from all points of view. Perhaps it's time to agree to disagree and get back to the joys of bicycling.