Winter Tire Change
 

After all I've seen written about separate winter tires, it seems like a good idea. Then again, lots of stuff that seems good turns out being a bunch of hoopla, so I'd like to draw on the wealth of this forum before I make the change once snow comes:

Is switching to a cross tire for wintery conditions necessary, or is it more a "peace of mind" thing that at the very least saves your nice dry-season tires from getting road-salted into oblivion? I have a large amount of trust in my 700 x 28 slick Panracers, but does the width and aggressive tread of a cyclo-cross tire really make a noticeable difference for ride and cornering performance in sloppy conditions?

It depends, of course, on how much snow and slop you go out in, the temps at the time, and now much ice is involved..

I can't speak to cyclocross tires, but I run studded snow tires on my bike. Yes, there's a certain peace of mind component, but that's because I can feel the cleats and studs digging in. For the most part, I don't have to change my riding style, and most of the time, I have better traction (and therefore control) than cars do.

I run studs in the winter. I'm just too old (30's) to take a lot of falls.

I rode the wrong bike just once when "possible light flurries" turned into 1/2 inch of snow. The cars packed it into a sheet of ice and I fell twice in 3 miles before I gave up and called my wife to rescue me. Final straw was being tailgated by a car while I descended a gentle slope on a sheet of ice. Falling is bad enough, but then getting run over is worse.

DoB, what tires were you on when you encountered the 1/2 of snow? What does it feel like going over similar snow and ice conditions with studded tires? I'm also wondering if the 700x38 Marathons I have on now are sufficient or whether I wouldn't be better off with 'winter tires.'

Last winter I got Nokian Hakkas. They are expensive (got mine very gently used). They are heavy. They are slow. They have less traction on dry pavement than slicks. They are absolutely outstanding on snow and especially on ice.

Last winter my ride was probably 80% on pavement and only 20% on snow/ice. I'm going to run studs again with the first snow fall.

I was riding Panaracer Pasela 700-32's. On ice they have zero traction. The first time I fell was on a concrete road crossing an expansion joint that was parallel with my path. The tires lacked the traction to climb the 1/8" bump in the concrete and the road just dragged the bike out from under me.

My normal winter bike is a 26" hybrid. I run Nokian Mount and Ground studded tires. They ran me about $40 each. I run that bike on sheet ice and thin snow at full speed no problem. Traction on the studs is absolute on ice. They dig in and the bike can be turned / stopped no sweat.

Added bouns, when turning on the studs on dry pavement a delicious buzz runs up the seat post.

knobby tires are ok for winter, but I'm sure I would have saved myself a lot of pain for a few days in highschool had I known there were studded bike tires available. At that time I had one of those departmentstore CCM MTBs. maybe 2~3 days of ice during the winter, but a butt load of snow to go through. Rarely ices over, but a lot of compacted or unplowed snow.

Hmm... seems like most of you have had better experiences with tires possessing teeth of some kind. I have some 700 x 32 cross tires that came with my bike, I guess it's worth the change.

Petty scary scenario, something I'd like to avoid...

Dry pavement: slicks are best.
Wet pavement: still slicks
Ice on pavement: studs
Snow on pavement: knobbies = studs (since most studded tires = knobbies)
Snow on ice on pavement: studs.

Me? Winter = studs, but 90% of the time I don't need them. The problem, is that the other 10% is not predictable.

I run studs pretty much all winter too, but on 80% of my ride I don't need them. That other 20% of the time, they keep me from sliding through traffic on my ass. 100% worth it.

I went to a clinic at REI in Troy, MI last year. Their recommendation was the semi-slicks with the small pyramids (sp? think egypt king graves) in the center and knobs on the side. 700c's are thin enough to sink down to the ground and get traction. I have a similar tire I have used all summer but the peaks are now worn. Hopeing they will still work. I have not tried this yet myself.

That sounds great for slush and snow, but nothing is going to "sink" through ice to get traction.

How much drag do studs cause? How much time would they add to, say, a 45 minute, 12 mile commute on dry pavement? I understand that they won't be used much (10% to 20% seems to be the norm for the winter). Is the tradeoff worth it? Or can you just be extra careful on days where ice is present and avoid having your entire winter slowed from the presence of studs?

I live in the Cleveland area where salt trucks de-ice everything all of the time.

I subscribe to the Ron Popeil method for winter tires, (remember the infomercial for the counter top oven?) Set it & Forget It! I put the Nokian 106's on in the begining of December and take them off mid to late April. I even got a second/ cheaper wheel set for winter to make it super easy. I had my fair share of falls and close calls, so now I just put the studded tires on and after a week I don't really notice them anymore. The studs allow me to ride in traffic when conditions are slippery (ice, snow etc.) and feel like I have control. Also decents and climbs are not comprimised due to weather. Th eNokian's are pricey but so far have held up very well. I woul dhighly reccomend them if you conmmute invovels snow & ice.

well, if it's well ploughed and de-iced with salt all the time, then you can try snow/mud tires. But you never know when you're going to get caught in that afternoon blizzard or early morning frozen road.

This actually caused me troubles last year. A good 75% of my ride to work is all on one road with speed limits of about 45MPH. There's not a lot of room to one side or the other, even less in the winter time. It's a moderately traveled road, but I wouldn't say its' #1 to be plowed.

Anyhow, last year I found I could go anywhere on my bike, but I had several instances where I stopped just fine, but cars behind/in front of me couldn't and slid at stop signs. I was very lucky, but once the ice hit, I found myself skipping riding days because I was more afraid of cars sliding into me then I was of falling down.

Rick,

I've got a 7 mile, 33 minute commute nominally. When I put studs on, it increases my time a good 5 minutes. If I'm going through a lot of snow, it gets worse. I had a couple of 45 minute rides through 4 inches of snow. Note that my studs are wider than my regular tires, and they are knobby. Also, they recommend less pressure, too.

I ride on the metropark bike path on the westside, along Rocky River. That doesn't get shoveled to often--occasionally I'll ride the road. They maintain our roads well--as you know--but if you get sections that are in the shade you can get black ice. I know I'm safer with the studs.

I won't put them on at the first snowfall, but I will when it looks like snows are here to stay. They work great--you can safely ride through the winter. Without them, I'd hang it up.

Studs...Drag? Lots. My 20 min commute goes to 30 min in winter with studs. Some of that may be thicker clothing and adjusting to the colder weather in general, but I think a lot of it are the drag associated with the studs.

(BTW, I used Nokian for 3 winters with no complaints. Last year I gave the nashbar studded tires a go and they held up very well. If they make it through this winter I think I'll switch, since $40 per tire is WAY better than $80 per tire, even if its only 2/3 the life.)

Its nice having multiple bikes set up with different tire selections.

Studs add time. My commute is 7.5 miles one-way. Takes 24 minutes if I'm flying on my road bike. Add 3-5 minutes if I take my rain/snow bike. Add another 3-5 minutes with that bike with studs.

Another example: On a descent on my way to work I can hit 35 MPH on my road bike, 28-29 on my rain/snow bike, and, I don't quite remember, but I don't think I break 24 MPH with studs. (buzzzzzzz)

It's winter. It's icy and snowy. Slow is good. Plus, after pushing around a studded bike all winter, in the spring, when you switch back to road tires, you will be a MONSTER.

My 40-45 minutes (12 miles each way) becomes 55-60 on studs. Wind is usually worse in the winter too just for fun.

If it was just snow I could skip the studs but the cars often pack it into ice.

While they salt the heck out of the roads in Detroit, that is only on the main roads that make up 15% of my ride. The 85% on side streets don't get salted.

The deadliest stuff is after it snows for a few days. The sun often melts snow during the day and the water runs into the roads. It refreezes at night making sheets of ice.

These are the main reasons for studs for me. Like everyone else I'm rolling on them 80% of the time on fine pavement....but the 20% can be unpredictable.

I still have a scar on my hip that reminds me not to trust the weatherman.

I think DogBoy pretty much nailed it.

Studs do add drag, but I find that the weight is a bigger problem. 26 x 2.1 studded tires weigh two pounds each, and accelerating or climbing with them is a PITA compared to even a standard knobby. I'm in stop-and-go traffic all the time, and I developed very big legs last winter. Well, not-as-spindly legs.

Trying not to buy a car; will do everything possible to safely ride in winter. Switching to Nokian Hakka106s when appropriate. Wish I had the money for spare wheel sets.
Nashbar will not be selling their studded tires this year - per a customer service email in September.
Peter White cycling has tons of warnings about losing studs on dry pavement if ridden hard. Anybody have experience with this, especially for the Hakka106s?

Great thread.

What length of stud? Lots of suggestions, but if someone can suggest a specific tire that's 26"x about 1.75" and "inexpensive", I'd appreciate it.

I'd like to hear more about that.