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where to get bush chain?

Does anyone know of a source for bush bicycle chain. That is, chain with actual bushings and not just little ridges on the plates.

The well respected mechanical engineer and cycling author Jobst Brandt claims to have gotten 20,000 miles out of his last bushed chain (http://yarchive.net/bike/).

Is the bike industry so focused on weight weeneism that bush chains are no longer available...anywhere?

Why not send him an email?

You sure you mean "bushings" and not "brushings"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by makeinu (Post 5615020)

Is the bike industry so focused on weight weeneism that bush chains are no longer available...anywhere?

I would venture to say that it's more cost savings than weight... chains with bushings contain a HUGE number of individual parts that all have to be assembled... 10 parts per link... the newer chains have a lot fewer parts to be assembled per link, therefore they're a LOT cheaper.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheldon Brown

An old-style bicycle chain has ten parts per link. The typical 57 link chain used on the average multispeed bike has 570 parts, more than the whole rest of the bicycle put together. There are 114 outer plates, 114 inner plates, 114 rollers, 114 rivets, and 114 bushings.

Here's another tidbit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheldon Brown

Chain "Stretch"

Cyclists often speak of chain "stretch", as if the side plates of an old chain were pulled out of shape by the repeated stresses of pedaling. This is not actually how chains elongate. The major cause of chain "stretch" is wearing away of the metal where the rivet rotates inside of the bushing (or the "bushing" part of the inside plate) as the chain links flex and straighten as the chain goes onto and off of the sprockets. If you take apart an old, worn out chain, you can easily see the little notches worn into the sides of the rivets by the inside edges of the bushings. With bushingless chains, the inside edge of the side plate hole that rubs against the rivet has a smooth radius instead of a sharp corner. This probably contributes to the greater durability of bushingless chains.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cave (Post 5615144)

Why not send him an email?

You sure you mean "bushings" and not "brushings"?

Jobst Brandt has already noted publicly that bush chains for bicycles aren't available anymore. In fact, he said he's saving the last few that he has for restoring future antique bikes. That was the context in which he noted that the last bush chain which he was actively using lasted for 20,000 miles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmclaughlin807 (Post 5615226)

Hrmph! :mad:

Well industrial bush roller chain doesn't seem to be any more expensive than bushingless bike chain. I'd switch to that, but I don't think I can get a sprocket to fit my internal hub (chainring should be easy enough).

It's a shame that the bicycle industry is so short sighted. Things like shaft drives, belt drives, and chaincases are heralded as the solution to "chain problems", when it seems that the real culprit isn't chains at all, but cost cutting and weight weenieism. I bet a roller chain with sealed o-rings would be every bit as low maintenance as any shaft drive, belt drive, or chaincase.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmclaughlin807 (Post 5615297)

Here's another tidbit:

Yeah, I read that. I'm not exactly sure what to make of it, except to say that Sheldon Brown seems to wholeheartedly endorse Jobst Brandt who makes it very clear elsewhere that, in his opinion, bushingless chains are far less durable.

However, I wonder if it might depend on how you care for your chain. Jobst Brandt claims that oiling a chain is a very bad practice unless the chain is completely flushed before oiling. He claims that simply dipping in solvent or cleaning/oiling on the bike is the worst possible thing as it simultaneously removes lubrication and spreads dirt to the inner parts of the chain. Sheldon, on the other hand, argues that the advantage of bushingless chains is that they allow greater flow to the inner parts of the chain.

So perhaps it's a case of horses for courses, with oiled bushingless chains being less durable than nonoiled bush chains, but more durable than oiled bush chains.

In any case, I'm looking for a way to reduce oil stains and chain wear, and if bush chains do the trick for a respected mechanical engineer and cycling expert like Jobst Brandt then I'd like to give them a try.

BTW, mcmaster.com has "singlespeed" compatible bush chain (ISO 081). Unfortunately, they don't sell it as nickel plated or stainless steel....just regular steel.

Sounds like it might be susceptible to rust.