import600

Now I've been living just off campus in midtown Detroit for a few years. I just got a good deal on a place 12 miles off campus. For me to ride there I need to travel through really rough areas. About 10 miles of it is through bad neighborhoods. I can usually hold a decent pace, on my road bike bike about 15+mph, a bit slower on my fixed gear, which is what I'd ride as I consider it a beater. I'm trying to plan classes for next semester so I can ride while it's still light out. Nothing afterdark, ya know? Well I'm curious about other peoples experiences with this sort of stuff. Have any of you ever been mugged or robbed while on your bike? How have you guys prepared for such a ride or even dealt with it? I'm looking for some advice from some people with expericence on this.

For anyone familiar with the area, I'm planning to ride from Mack and Warren, to Warren and Woodward.

Thanks

donnamb 

(I'm originally from the Detroit area.)

ax0n

Given that Detroit's reputation for being a rather unsafe city is an order of magnitude higher than Kansas City's reputation, I don't know how true it holds...

As a general rule, though, you pretty much look like you belong if you're on a bike. Now, if you're on a full carbon road bike wearing lycra, not so much. I generally feel alright riding through some of KC's worst parts, but I always wear street clothes on my bike. People leave me alone. I'd say I would feel safer on a bike through some parts of town than if I were driving, actually.

Again, this is KC. You're in Motown.

Joe Dog

I rode through bad neighborhoods the first time I lived in Minneapolis. The strategie I used was this:

- Ride on well traveled streets - there are bike lanes on the main north-south streets into and out of downtown; the side streets would have less traffic but I found that the chance of getting hassled was a lot higher on the side streets.

- Do what ever you can to avoid flats/mechanicals. Put slime in your tubes, ride gatorskins, whatever works for you. I rode a mountain bike with knobbies at the time and never had a problem, but if I flatted, I planned to ride the flat for a ways until I got a place where I thought I could fix it without getting hassled.

- Don't be flashy; I never rode my nice road bike or overtly looked like a "serious biker".

- Watch out for people in the street. For whatever reason, people in tough neighborhoods in MPLS sometimes walk in the street rather than on the sidewalks. The only problem I ever had was when I apparently got too close to some street-walking thug-wannabees who thought I "disrespected" them.

- I never stopped for errands on the way home. You are more vulnerable when you are immobile and distracted, and unlocking your bike is a situation to avoid in my book (that's also why I planned to ride out a flat rather than fix one in a bad area).

- Don't be afraid; in my experience, most of the people in "bad areas" are very nice and glad to help you out. Don't fall into the trap of thinking of your commute as enemy teritory or give in to fear. Sometimes thugs will try to intimidate people to see what they do - if they crumple they are easy marks but if they keep riding or ignore the intimidation, they are a harder mark. Use your head, keep alert follow your intuition.

The disclaimer:
I am no expert and this is not a professional opinion, rather I am only passing on my experience and opinion. I hope this is helpful. Use your head and be safe!!

-=(8)=-

I commute through one of the ruffest, gang ridden areas in Florida,
Riviera Beach, everyday to get to my job. This is what sort of works
for me.....

Try to look homeless....Really. I roll with my shirt off and my stuff
bungied to my bike in an old canvas bag.

I turn off my headlite when on well lit streets.

Ride in the middle of the street whnever you can so somone hiding in the
shadows cant sucker punch you or surprise you.

Dont make any eye contact or respond to threats, propositions, bird noises, etc.

Related to the above, you will probably see the same people regularly as they
see you so switch up your route. I have a few and rotate them in no particular order.

Lastly and most controversially, I carry a huge 800,000 volt cattle prod type unit in
case someone gets bold enuff to chase me.

Stay aware, good luck !

ken cummings

For years in Denver I rode to DBTC meetings at night through "Five Points" considered on of the roughest parts of town. Never Fancy bike jerseys. Grubby rain/snow gear half the time. Rugged touring bike covered with reflective tape and tough tires. Got called to twice. One time was called at; returned a Hi There and dialed it up to 400 watts. The other time I was paralleled by a truck load of what might be called toughs the one time I rode a faired trike to the meeting. They talked to me and I chatted back. First chance I turned off their line into a lit shopping area, doubled back through the lot, and put several cars between us. Never rode the trike through that area again. Situational awareness my friend, situational awareness.

Dahon.Steve

I ride through bad areas all the time at night in Jersey City. Here's my experience.

There's too much fear out there about bad areas and this should be a huge concern if your're a pedestrian or in a motorcar. A bicyclist on the other hand has an advantage because riding a cycle is considered a person too poor to drive an automobile. To date, nothing has ever happened.

These are my rules

1. Turn off the headlights and leave on one blinky. In fact, if the streets are well lit, you might want to drop the blinky until you reach a better neighborhood. You don't want to be known as a transportation cyclist with quality equiptment.

2. Use Schwalbe or good quality tires.

3. Vary your route every two or three days.

4. If someone greets you, return the same.

5. Don't ride close to anyone, take the lane if they are standing on the sidewalk close to the curb.

6. Should a group of teens walking on the sidewalk, begin crossing the street in your direction. Turn around and make a U-Turn fast.

7. Don't go shopping in a bad neighborhood.

8. Time the lights so you don't have to wait at the corner. If that means slowing down in the middle of the block, do so because you don't want to be waiting at a corner where people are standing.

9. Don't use a helmet. -- A lot of people on this forum would be against this but only recreational cyclist use helmets and you don't want to look like one.

10. Conserve your energy thoughout the ride and pick up speed once you encounter a large crowd.

buzzman

I was riding with some regularity through some areas in Boston (thru Roxbury to Uphams Corner in Dorchester) that were having shootings on a pretty regular basis. In the daylight hours I rode through the "hottest" of the neighborhoods and at night- I was working until 11pm- I took a major street home that by-passed the shorter route through the more residential area that was pretty gang ridden at night.

I was a little apprehensive at first but never had any problems other than some adolescent teasing as I went up a hill one day by a high school. It didn't amount to much and actually some of the stuff the kid was saying as I rode by got a good laugh out of me. My bike is not very flashy at all. A good looking MTB might attract some unwarranted attention. Get a good beater bike or better yet a "girl's frame"- I would think no one would touch that.

I rode "with purpose" and at a pretty good clip and once at one of the diciest intersections my Krypto Lock went flying out of my milk crate and the toughest of the kids hanging on the corner stopped traffic and grabbed it for me. Respect is taken seriously by those kids and I was only to willing to give it to them.

It broke my heart to see the makeshift memorials to the slain kids by the roadside or in some playground.

Detroit is it's own high water mark of danger and violence and I wouldn't want to measure my experience against some of the areas in that city. The sad thing is the gang violence is usually targeted not at a stranger cycling through but at some kid that dissed someone as he walked by in the hall at school. You just don't want to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I felt a lot safer in the busiest of neighborhoods with lots of traffic and activity and at night a good wide boulevard at high speed can't be beat.

good luck and keep your wits about you.

Marrock

11. Dress in full road kit, lots of lycra in bright colors and the uglier the jersey the better. Make it so no one will want to get to close to you.

BLE

I have commuted through rough areas of Norfolk, VA and Western Oahu. Both areas have heavy crime and drug use. I knew I was a target. My commuter has 28mm Armadillo tires with 28-38mm tubes. The large heavy tube means that it is thicker so it leaks more slowly with a puncture and I have ridden one flat for more than a mile to get to a well lit area to change the tube. Contrary to some other posts, I use a very bright HID headlight that lights up an area for over 200 feet in front of me. In really bad areas, when I roll up to a red light I will sit behind a car instead of rolling up to the front. Bad guys are less likely to walk out into the road to hassle you. I will draft the car when the light turns. Most important of all, ride with purpose, never appear tentative. If someone does try to come after you, use your speed, cut through a parking lot, ride in traffic, go into a post office, fire station, etc.

import600

OK good stuff so far... Have any of you ever been mugged? or is this some sort of non existent threat? Gang's exist here but thats not what I'm afraid of here. If you owe them money, then worry. ha. I'm really worried about motorists pulling a gun on me to rob me. Which pisses me off because it makes the effort seem pointless. This route I'm takling about and really any of them I can plan, are scattered with a lot of vacant houses/buildings, vacant fields, and a considerable bit of fast paced traffic. I haven't ever felt threatened in my car, but w/e.

Liek I said though, has anyone actually ever been mugged on a bike?

MyBikeGotStolen

IS the deal on the new place THAT good of a deal that you want to move far away from campus and have to ride through that madness? Heck I am trying to move closer to campus!

donnamb 

I would be more worried about having a Detroit motorist pull a gun on you for road rage/cyclist hate purposes than for robbery. I remember my mom's boss get his rear car window shot through (missed him by 3 inches) because someone perceived he passed them too closely on the Chrysler Freeway. My dad had a few guns pointed at him in traffic disputes, as well. I think Steve and Lem have good advice about urban camouflague. If I were in your shoes, I'd have a cell phone always at the ready, and I believe in Detroit I would seriously consider carrying pepper spray on my bike. There are some interesting and useful mounts available for purchase.

nashcommguy

There's alot of good hard-won fundamental advice on this particular thread. I rode in Chicago as a green(inexperienced) commuter and encountered some situations. ALWAYS show respect not fear. Even w/t catcalls, whistling, ect. there is an element of respect you're receiving whether or not they say it. NEVER allow yourself to be pinned between traffic/sidewalk. Don't do your shopping or stop to get some little item at the mini-mart. You're a target OFF the bike, but only rarely ON the bike. 2-3 different routes is a sound idea. NEVER use sidestreets even if they are shortcuts. Stick to the main drag(s). If a wannabe thug walks out in front of you from the sidewalk give as much distance as is safe, but take the lane if you have to. And I'd eliminate the possibility of flats by getting suitable airless tires. That's a whole other thread topic, but it's an option worth exploring.

My commute is rural now, but were I to be an urban commuter there's no question in my mind, but that I'd get a carry permit and have a Beretta Tomcat .32. It's very small and accurate at short range. Just one man's opinion. Things can escalate very quickly when the predatory mentality kicks in and cowards of all kinds will band together in the moment to feast on perceived weakness. Just be aware the Magna Carta, Marquis of Queensberry, The Constitution and Laws of Hywel the Great are just crap pieces of parchment when you're out in the street. Urban cycle-commuting is a blast, but it's also not a game for fools, either. Be safe. And keep your head moving.

import600

It's a better deal cause I'm an owner now rather than a renter.

Michigander

Wayne State huh? My friend lives near there, and I know a couple who live on campus. Whenever I go visit them, I put a hell of an arsenal in my trunk. I'm talking 150+ rounds for a handgun and semi automatic rifle. But that's when I drive there, and often come back after midnight. I have known people who do daily commutes down woodward on MTB's, and I think they're nuts.

I've ridden around there with Caadman and Mastercylinder and some other guys and gals from BF on the Wolverine Bell Isle ride. We go on a saturday morning, in a group of 10-30. We've never had problems. People cheer for us as we go by. But that's a saturday morning in huge numbers.

As for me, I think that area is horrible. Unless they changed the law and allowed me to carry my gun on campus while I was attending there, I would never consider going to Wayne. The cops there keep it pretty clear, but not clear enough. If you go 2 blocks off the property you'll find crack addicts, gangs, bums, *****s, it's not a good place. There are other colleges, and personal safety would lead me to go elsewhere.

But if you really want to do it, I would suggest an array of non firearm weapons. Pepper spray is good, but only if you can handle fighting after you've been hit with it. Expanding batons are cool, and can be hidden nicely. Criminals in that area are neither smart nor quick, but it only takes one bullet to kill you. Speed, awareness, and non firearm weapons are good safety devices, but it's still a risk. Please think carefully before you do anything.

phurley

My suggestion is to move.

yamcha

Import, are you a white man riding through a mostly African American neighborhod? Please be honest.

import600

NONO.. boo wayne.. CCS, here. I've got a single baseball bat in my car, on the floor next to my driver seat for real sticky stuff. But I've been doing rides alone from midtown to downtown with no issuses, Some side streets. Like you say though, go a couple blocks either way, gets creepy. Most of the time midday, no one is out at all. It's funny you mention all that crap about wayne, I hear about a lotta stuff that goes down there. Nothing like that happens around here, two blocks away. All this is kinda making me consider a bus/bike combo instead. But then again this isn't that safe either. GM really had a big in ****ing up this city.

import600

yeh I'm white. I don't dress like most people in the area, I'm wear mostly secondhand shop stuff.

yamcha

Well then what you need to do to be safe is to disguise yourself to look like the majority of the people who live in that troubled neighborhood. You will get less trouble if you don't stick out. Agree?

unkchunk

I guess this is where the bike commuter stereotype pays off. Since we either ride because we are drunks who lost our license or too poor to own a car, everyone assumes we don't have cash (excepting for the CF and lycra set as aXon stated). I don't even get pan handled. Not too long ago a chick at a convenience store was crying (rather hammy I thought) and asking everyone for spare change. Everyone but me that is. She just detoured around me like I had the plague.

Anyways, I've ridden through areas that other people are afraid of, and never had a problem. If you ride straight through, don't hassle the local people, give them room to pull out or cross the street, and let things slide, I don't think you'll have problems.

unixpro

I'm a white clyde riding a slow commuter through a couple of neighborhoods that are generally considered bad by the people in this area. Mostly Latino and African American around here. Throw in some bikers for good measure.

I have what is obviously a commuting bike. Not flashy, except that it is well lit, with 2 headlights and 2 taillights. I ride in all weather on the same route virtually every working day. I've been doing this route for just about 9 months now, without a break. I've never been harassed, assaulted, or felt that I was in any extraordinary personal danger.

I see pretty much the same people on this route every day. As I recognize people, I make a point of waving or saying Hi to them, just to make myself known as a regular through the neighborhood.

Bad neighborhoods often have some very good people at their cores actively working to make the area better. If you become known in the area, people won't think of you as either a threat or an opportunity.

savethekudzu

Most "bad neighborhoods" are populated mostly by decent people, though these same decent people may be somewhat at the mercy of neighboring criminals... and many neighborhoods thought of as "bad neighborhoods" really aren't.

Gromit

I am very familiar with that area. I've posted the following comments a few times and I'm sorry to sound like a broken record but YOU ARE WAY SAFER RIDING IN DETROIT THAN IN MACOMB COUNTY (for those unfamiliar, I would submit that most Michiganders perceive Macomb County as far safer than Wayne County which includes Detroit).

The majority of your problems will stem from suburbanites coming into the city for work.

Your biggest "local" problem will be wild dogs (get pepper spray). BTW, the people walking with clubs aren't after you - they're looking out for dogs too.

For what it's worth, Warren can get pretty fast and furious. A lot of suburbanites heading that way to get to work. The lanes shift, and it's generally pretty hectic. Depending on where you live, you might find a better alternative for part of your ride to take Chandler Park to Conner (turn left) to Warren (turn right). This keeps you off Warren for a while and is prettier since you go by the golf course. However, you still have the toughest part of Warren to deal with.

Have fun.