riddei

I placed this in the commuter section and not the winter biking section because I wanted answers from non "ice-biking" folks.

I told my wife that I was going to buy some Nokians. I got "the look" (which anyone who's been married for any amount of time can relate). She's basically right. Over the past couple of months, I've bought synthetic base layers, winter clothes (windproof, waterproof, polartec) lights, etc.

Before the winter really hit (which it really has now in Maine) I bought Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires because my biggest fear was getting a flat in sub zero temps. I now know that the reality is that flats are less likely in the winter. But crashing on black ice is a reality.

I don't ride in signifigant winter weather events at the pleading of my family. I do ride if the forecast is 1-3"s or so. I've let air out of my tires for traction when it's gotten greasy out which has helped.

My question is, how many people in Northern climate's ride without studded snow's? Is it just a matter of time before I have a real wake up call (or worse)? Yesterday it was 0* F on my way in, and on my way back home I was basically taking the lane in some spots because of ice on the sides. I had a bad feeling that if I did slide in the middle of the road, I was going to get run over .

DoB

In a nutshell, that is why I got the studs. I found myself one afternoon riding on a sheet of ice with a car tailgating me. One false move and I would fall hard and then get run over. Nice.

This entire week has found 4 miles of my route covered in a slab of 1" thick ice curb to curb. The studs grip well and this is the only way I could make it without driving.

Tactics:
1. Fall and break a hip. Then ask wife "Are you happy now?"
2. Ride to work, fall a couple time coming home. Call wife and make her drive to pick you up. Repeat as necessary.
3. Stop riding in winter. Gain 50 pounds. Badger wife for sex.

Ngchen

Depending on where you live, and how good the snow removal people are, studs may or may not be necessary. There are several tricks to keep oneself upright in the snow that I've found over the years.

(1) Slow down. You're better off arriving later than usual rather than crashing. If you do crash, your injuries would be far less severe. Also, being slower means other traffic expects you to be slow; hopefully they'll follow far less closely reducing your chances of getting run over. Don't ride on the ice at the edge of the right lane.
(2) Ride on clear ground if possible. If not, ironically a thin layer of snow is better than packed ice.
(3) When temperatures are hovering around freezing, that is when things are most treacherous. I would avoid riding at those times.
(4) Bridges freeze before roadways.
(5) It's better to get stuck, when compared to crashing.
(6) Ride in a lower gear than usual; you'll need the extra torque to push through the snow.
I haven't ridden with studs before, but I hear they're excellent. Be sure to check their legality first where you plan to use them.

Cyclist0383

There is no way that I would ride without studded tires in winter. A set of Nokians should last at least three winters. Keep in mind that you don't need the most aggressively studded tire; I get by just fine on roads that are literately sheets of ice with just 106 studs.

nick burns

Like Ngchen stated, it depends on where you live. I'm in southern NJ and I keep one bike set up with studded tires just in case the temps plunge when the roads have been wet. I find I "need" to use the studs maybe 10 - 15 days out of the whole year, but if I didn't have them, the ride would be very dangerous. An icy patch will put you down faster than you can react. Being as I use the studs very infrequently, I'm on my 4th year with very little signs of wear.
If you don't have the desire to set up a complete bike for the purpose, think about having a second set of wheels all set up with studded tires. It's much easier just to swap in a new wheelset than to keep changing tires.

DoB

These are bikes, not cars. Universally legal.

Here when it snows they plow and salt the heck out of main roads and leave the residential roads alone (unless they are bus routes). 12-24 hours after the snow they plow (but do not salt) the residential streets. By then the cars have packed down a good ice base which the plows scrape clean. Studs are excellent on this ice base. Knobbies are useless.

I run the 26" Nokiaan Mount and Ground tire. I nice balance of cost, grip and rolling resistance.

ECDkeys

+1. Although if the OP got the look from mentioning studded tires, imagine the look when he mentions an additional wheelset. If he gets the tires, it's likely they'll stay on all winter. For me that would get annoying really fast.

If you can get away with riding without studs, try it. Even with studs, there's no guarantee you'll stay upright, and I've a few riders, myself included, go down because they got overconfident on ice. That being said, I find my Nokians very helpful in glare ice conditions.

Last winter, one of the funniest incidents was when I took my cross bike out without studs. Everything was fine until I encountered an entire neighborhood coated in ice. Not only did I go down, but I kept falling when trying to stand up and walk. Cars were going nowhere either. It was comical how often I fell.

plodderslusk

I used to ride studless in winter, but after tipping forty I simply did not want to fall down as much anymore. I agree with Ziemas that you need just the 106 studs for commuting. Especially if one rides from the suburbs into town (and back) it is difficult not to encounter areas that are dangerous without studs.
They salt and plough but it is quite enough with one forgotten spot to bring on a mishap. Why take that chance ?

JusticeZero

Yes, studs are a necessity. And good studs at that. I don't skimp on lights or studded tires; both are probably going to keep me alive better than anything else I can get. I will note that I have not considered changing bikes or wheelsets for it - I just pull the tires, swap the tires out, and put them back on.

chipcom 

I commute on my snow bike, with studded Kenda Klondikes, most of the winter for the following reasons:

1. The weather forecast means diddly squat - I've had the weather change during my commute and while I am at work. Sure, if it gets bad while I am at work I can always call for a ride, but if the weather is bad, why would I want to put family or friends at risk driving in it because I was unprepared for riding in it? Better to be prepared.

2. Even if the weather is decent, why would I want to subject one of my other bikes to all the salt and crap on the roads? Not everyone has the luxury of a dedicated winter bike, but if you do have one, might as well roll studded tires on it. Used hybrids/MTBS that you can use for winter riding are a dime a dozen.

3. Yeah, the studded tires don't roll as well - BFD - that just means it feels sooooo good come spring when I start rolling the other bikes with skinnier road tires.

I commuted during the winter for many years without studs...so I don't feel they are a 'necessity', but it sure is nice to have a surer-footed pony if you can get some.

Cyclist0383

Not to mention that it really doesn't make a difference because you can't really safely go faster than studded tires allow with non-studded tires in icy conditions.

ItsJustMe

I'd ride without synthetic base layers and all that crap if it meant I could buy studded tires.
Most people could probably ride many days without studded tires. I couldn't; 4 of my 10 miles one way are over gravel, and that doesn't get cleared down. It gets plowed and a layer of snow left on top that gets packed down to ice (the alternative would be for the plow to rip up the road). Even with the studs on I brake carefully going down hills so I don't get much speed up, and I spin the rear tire going up.
As far as flats, I've never flatted with a Nokian. There's not as much junk on the roads around here in the winter, and the Nokians are pretty darn thick.

interested

I just ordered some Nokian W106's, they haven't arrived yet, but I look forward to installing them. Had a really scary experience today with a pavé section near the harbor that was glazed with ice.

Commuting to work is important and I pay what is necessary to do it in a safe and comfortable manner.
Crashing means potential damage to me and my bike, so if studded tires reduces the risk, I gladly pay.

I do think that you need studded tires with experiences like that. At least to me the price of some studded tires is easily worth it to avoid such scary situations. Commuting on a bike is fun and should remain so.

--
Regards

riddei

Hi Guy's,

Thanks for such a great discussion. I went to the local (actually not so local) bike store and got a set of Kenda Klondike 700x40's. They didn't have any Nokians in stock so they gave me a great price on the Klondikes. The best part is that they mounted them for free. I broke two tire irons getting the Schwalbes on the rims last time, and they said "this was the hardest tire I've ever removed". The Klondikes have carbide studs so I think they'll be comparable to the Nokians.



An even better part is that my wife stayed in the car with the key in the accessory position with all of the lights, radio, heated seats, etc. on for 10 minutes or so, while I was helping my three year old use the toilet at the LBS. She killed the battery so I got to give her "the look" . One of the guys in the LBS gave us a jump.

The bike store has a great website if anyone is interested:https://www.bikeman.com/

Initial thoughts are that these will make a huge difference! I rode my bike up and down my driveway which currently looks like a ice-rink on an incline. Great traction, I would have NOT been able to do that with the summer tires!

ItsJustMe

riddei:
I've heard that some Schwalbes are probably the hardest tire ever to get on and off.
OTOH, I can mount my Nokians without tools at all. I didn't know Kenda had tires with carbide studs. Bikeman's got a good price on Nokians too, I'll be needing a new tire after this season, my rear tire has lost about a dozen studs.

tjspiel

I've got the 26" version of the Klondikes. They're fine on ice and hard packed snow. Not so great on loose snow unless you let significant air out.

The "look" is something I'm very familiar with and it usually doesn't stop at just a look ;-). How much do you save on gas and related car expenses per month? Eventually that'll cover the cost of your new bike toys.

ECDkeys

Which Nokians are you talking about? My 700x35 W106 tires are a huge PITA to get on the rims (I've put them on two different wheelsets, each equally as difficult). Once they're on, they stay on until the threat of ice passes sometime in the spring. The sidewalls are so rigid, I swear I was riding on a rear flat for two blocks before I realized something was wrong (I was traversing massive icy ruts, so the normal warning signs of a flat were not noticeable). Taking the tire off, repairing the tube, and replacing the tire was a definite drag, but I was close enough to home to avoid doing it out in the cold.

ECDkeys

My sympathies as well. I was married for seven years and constantly got the look. Suffice it to say my current biking preoccupation would not be even remotely possible if I were still married.

DoB

That is a pain.

I have two bikes. I run a Bianchi San Jose (called "the fast bike") most of the year and a Trek Navigator in the winter. The studs run on the Nav. The Trek was actually bought some time ago as a leisurely family outing bike (which it still is from May to November) and then it gets a tire change for winter.

Two bikes is nice to have for winter commuting. Or at least two wheel sets.

ghettocruiser

Ice Spikers and Snow Studs both mount easier than 294s.

WXC300s mount easily enough that I'm a bit scared of peeling a bead if I run the pressure too low.

I speak only for the 26" sizes here.

ItsJustMe

Nokian Hakkapelitta 700x35 - looking at peterwhitecycles, yeah, I think it's a W106. I had no trouble mounting them. I actually do use an iron most of the time, but it's not necessary, I put them on the last time without tools, though they were a little stubborn.

PaulH

I started winter cycling without studs. More recently, I also commuted daily year-round for several years without them. If you lower the saddle a few inches so as to be able to slide one or both of your feet on the ground, avoid any turning or front braking while on ice, and have quick reflexes, you can do it. Even if you have to walk the bike for part of the route, it can still be faster than driving.

On the other hand, riding with studs is pleasant and easy. You don't feel as if you are tightrope walking. The way I look at it, you are going to need tires with tread for winter conditions, and once you have accepted the increased rollong resistance from tread, you might as well add studs.

A lot depends upon where you live. Far up north, it's mostly dry snow, and knobbies are as good as anything. Further south, theree is a freeze ad thaw cycle and ice is always present. Studs are best there.

Paul

soze

I love my Nokian W106's. Once I get into 3-6" of powder I'm walking, but they cut down and bite in enough that I can get to and fro with a little bit of extra work. They're scary to ride on dry pavement IMO though. As there is no snow forecasted for this week I'm switching back to my slicks until the next forecasted snowfall.

fishman473

I don't want to burst your bubble riddei, but I went looking at the BikeMan website because I was curious as to how many studs those tires have and according to their own website the Kendas have steel studs (which is what I thought anyway).

I have never used steel studs myself but I have heard that they last as little as a single season. I have a set of Nokian Mount and Ground tires and I am on winter number 8 on those. So the extra cash for the carbide studs is a very worthwhile investment.

Perhaps you could still take your Klondikes back today and exchange them, especially if they misinformed you about the stud material.

Chris H

What's a snow plow?

I live in Texas, and while we don't get snow we do get ice. Sure it's only for a couple of days at a time, but I'd rather ride to work than walk. Plus, the whole state seems to shut down when we have these little episodes.

Haven't used them this year, but we usually don't get anything like this until Feb or March. Last year I was one of the only people that could get to work. Didn't have any trouble at all. Since I didn't have to use any PTO for not being able to get into work (and worked 3 days straight earning some sweet, sweet, overtime since no one else could get into work) those tires have more than payed for themselves.