Interesting perspectives on comfort.

I think the road bike, which makes you reach more for the handlebars, lends itself to a more athletic posture and more muscular pedaling. But it does that while you're more bent over, which produces pressure points on the body. I think the comfort bike and moreso the Dutch style bikes posture is more natural, although it also has pressure points. I suspect the back and hand pain issue is different for everybody. I don't think you can say one bike posture leads to more issues than another.

This is from Donnamb, who I haven't seen post lately. Hope she's ok.

IMO, for riding around town for modest distances, the more upright posture is more comfortable and appropriate. That said, the more athletic road bike and even the mountain bike position is better suited for longer distances to get more power behind each stroke while reducing your wind exposure.

Pressure points? I agree that in that position your weight is borne by more parts of you body, - which I think is good. Each part bears less of the total pressure. I will stress again that drop bars on a bike alone doesn't make it a racing bike. Road bikes come in a number of different geometries.

I guess I don't know how you decide which position is more "natural" Here's a picture of people sitting on a floor. It's not the greatest pic and while some of the kids might be sitting up straight, many are resting on their elbows. Both adults seem to be using their arms to support their weight to some degree.

http://www.nfb.org/Images/nfb/Public...9/bm030917.jpg

I guess as child I heard the admonishment "sit up straight" enough to think of "sitting up" more of as an idealised posture than a natural one.

I commute on a fixedgear cyclocross bike... the same one I race on. In fact, since I live in SF, and are able to get around by bike I almost never use anything else. All these years I thought I could use one bike for racing, training, and commuting. Now I see that I was wrong. I guess I'm going to need a new "special" bike for commuting.

Appropriate... that's a word to describe how you should sit in kindergarten.

It is--it can be used for several purposes (lots of words are like that)! :)

By appropriate I mean that that posture gives you a better vantage point of the traffic and terrain.

Too bad you don't live nearby so the next time I'm comfortably riding my bike with my inappropriate posture I could give you an equally inappropriate hand gesture as I speed past.


I'm not sure if it was just a poor choice of words, or more of the same judgment we've seen throughout this thread.

Harsh

he's not a roll model.
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;p

Does it give you a better vantage point of ice patches/road hazards, a parked car pulling into traffic, or a car door opening into the bike lane? I'm not worried about somebody pulling into traffic a block away from me. I'm worried about the one a few feet away.

The line of sight may be marginally higher, but I don't know that that is always better. In any case, I feel like I'm up pretty high on my road bike. Even in the drops my head is up higher than the heads of people in cars (though not SUVs).

People are all different and I don't think there's a universally comfortable cycling position. If you look at the picture of people sitting on the floor that I posted, virtually none of them are sitting the exact same way. If you were to take the same picture 15 minutes later, I'd bet that a lot, maybe even most, would have changed position.

If someone's comfortable on a dutch style cruiser for their commute then I'm not going to try to tell them they're not. Likewise, I'm skeptical of any claim that an upright position is the most comfortable one for short commutes, or any commute. It may be fine for most people, but I don't know if it's the best, or that any single position is the best.

You ever see anyone sit for any length of time at a table, at a bar, at a stadium, on the floor or anywhere else who was looking forward (and not gazing at the floor), who used a bent over posture (with associated back and neck angles) even close to the position presented in this diagram for Road race riding?

I've seen that position in some porn films.... :eek:

That position really isn't a racing position either, unless one is racing on the hoods.

I sit like that at my desk.
Aerodynamics is very important for ETL coding and design!

To all you Dutch bicycle enthusiasts/geniuses out there who have hijacked the term “commuter bike”. There is no way in 100 years you would want to ride one of those things 20+ miles into a stiff Illinois wind on a limestone trail (and yes some of us do this some of the time). Nor would you want to lug a 40+ lb bike up a train platform and onto a commuter train. So stop telling me what to ride.

I do not associate a vertical position with 'comfort' so much as I associate having any significant weight on my hands for the majority of my ride with DIScomfort. I've tried a number of things to try to remedy this, and recently injured my hand; it looks like i'm going to need to go to something with a fully upright position or a recumbent... Since I live in Alaska, i'll likely need both.

As noted though, I had no trouble with a unicycle for afternoon rides all around town. It is true that a recent trend in touring unicycling has been toward the addition of bars, but those are used mainly for control and as a mounting point for cycling computers, lights, brakes, and the like.

DataJunkie: I'm in my 30's, and I only in the past year got out of the college in question, as I was returning to academia persuing an advanced degree.

Watch people at a stadium, especially those intent on the game. You will see people leaning far forward with head turned up. Will they stay in that position for a long time? Probably not, but that's part of my point. Besides, I'm not advocating a racing position, though I see nothing wrong with it if the rider is comfortable with it. I'm thinking more along the lines of a touring one, but mostly I think it's important to be able to change position.

As I've said before, but maybe not quite this way:

- Racing bikes often have drop bars, but not all bikes with drop bars are racing bikes.
- Not all bikes with drop bars have them set lower than the seat.
- Not all bikes with drop bars are made from exotic materials like titanium or carbon fiber
- Many, perhaps most, bikes with drop bars have eyelets for a rear rack
- Most bikes with drop bars can be fitted with fenders
- Some bikes with drop bars even come with fenders
- Some bikes with drop bars can take wider tires
- Some bikes with drop bars have disc brakes
- Low maintenance SS or FG bikes with drop bars are very popular with certain commuters

I'm not saying everybody should commute with a drop-bar road bike. I'm just saying that I don't see anything about a dutch style bike that makes it inherently better for commuting than a hybrid, a road bike, or a mountain bike as long a they are equipped and adjusted to the commuter's satisfaction.

thdave - Donna is fine.

Being that I work in a shop that caters specifically to those who commute I can tell you that the bikes people use are as different as the people who ride them.

These are the bikes I use for commuting...

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/7500mxb.jpg
'99 Trek 7500 - 16 speed

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/kuwie3spd5.jpg
'87 Kuwahara Cascade 3 speed conversion

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikep...s/kuwiefix.jpg
'87 Kuwahara Cascade fixed gear conversion

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/bridgette5.jpg
1962 Peugeot fixed gear conversion

The Kuwaharas get used for foul weather commuting and the 3 speed is my primary winter bike.

The Trek is fast on the road and allows me to take the MUTS and trails as do the converted mtb's.

The Peugeot logs the most mileage of any of my bikes as she is my spring - fall commuter.

Um....congratulations?

I think the only things that have been proven in this thread is that commuters can bicker like roadies and more importantly that everyone is different. There is no universal solution to every commute. Meaning that one can ride anything from a road bike to a heavy dutch style commuter depending upon their preferences. Anyone who says that any particular bike is not suited to any form of a commute is sadly mistaken.

1 No, but several shops in the area are.
2 Yes - I have been riding one for eight years and about 15,000 miles. I see increasing numbers of them around, mostly Breezers.
3 No. Road congestion is getting worse every year, and parking spots are getting scarcer. As long as people keep clogging up the roads with idling cars, there will be a need for these bikes.

Paul

This trend to produce more "city" bikes is actually quite appealing as for a time, one could quite easily buy a mountain bike or a road bike here but there were few choices available for those who's riding was primarily urban.

At our shop, the demand for old cruisers was and still is off the scale (we restore and recycle older bikes) as many see these as the ultimate vehicle for meeting their urban transportation needs.

They don't want to race, they aren't going off road, and comfort and utility are the highest priorities... I even find than many younger folks prefer these over any other kind of bike.

Had to chime in on this one..
Unfortunately, in my town of York, PA, most of the bikes i see around being ridden by adults are $40 specials from Walmart. People dont understand a quality machine or really care much about it, considering they feel it will get stolen or just simply replaced when it breaks.

The people buying these bikes tend to be adults who cannot drive for whatever reasons ( DUI, No Liscense, Illegal in this country)...

Walmart.. ugh.. i wish they didn't carry bikes at all.. im sure it really hurts the REAL bike shops.. but at least there are more cyclists in the world for it.

-TJ

Uh oh -- You might have just resurrected the never-ending debate about department store bikes! :D I tend to agree with the last part of your last sentence. Maybe somebody who rides one of these disposable bikes for a while will get an appetite for something better ... Here's a link to the page that got this discussion started, in case anyone is wondering.

Do you consider it a badge of honor to be so combative? Even though you make some good arguments (once one sifts out the vitriol), the way you go about it makes me wanna have a beer with the "Group Thinkers". Maybe they're wrong but at least they're not so dang nasty about it. Is it so important for you to be right? Did you ever learn how to just drop it? Agree to disagree? How old are you anyway? 13? 3? I hear that cycling is a great outlet for pent up rage...maybe you could spent less time throwing daggers with your "electronic" pen and more time on a bike.

Just a thought from a know-nothing newbie.

No more than them selling Krispy Kremes hurt my REAL bakery. At least there are more donut eaters (in serious need of bicycles) in the world for it. :D

It's called the "niche market". If your LBS of choice had to sell (or :gulp:... service) walmart-type bikes to walmart-type bike customers, they wouldn't have to cater to 'real' cyclists and us 'real' cyclists would actually be worse off.

Be careful what you wish for.

Just realized I'm dragging up an older thread... but since I'm in the market I found your webpage.

That list is thorough and I applaud you for doing it. I enjoyed looking through it even though it's not the market I'm looking for.

Close... but I am looking for a road geometry single speed commuter. I've pretty much made my choice (Masi Speciale Commuter). Has anybody has seen or created a similar comparison of the Masi Commuter/Raleigh One Way/Bianchi San Jose's of the world? In my reading on this forum and browsing I've come across 6 or so models but I'm sure there are quite a few I've missed.

Perhaps I should do something like this on my own website... helping the world: one SS/FG commuter bike at a time.