Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Commuting
Reload this Page >

non-petroleum lubricant? soy wax?

Notices
Commuting Bicycle commuting is easier than you think, before you know it, you'll be hooked. Learn the tips, hints, equipment, safety requirements for safely riding your bike to work.

non-petroleum lubricant? soy wax?

Old 01-27-08, 03:07 PM
  #1  
vincentpaul
Artful Dodger
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
non-petroleum lubricant? soy wax?

I'm interested in eliminating non-renewable compounds from my bicycle maintenance routine. I've seen several recommendations in the forums here for the use of paraffin wax as a chain lubricant. Has any body tried soy wax or bees wax? Are there any other non-petroleum-based chain lubricants available? How about grease or light lubricant substitutes?
vincentpaul is offline  
Old 01-27-08, 05:08 PM
  #2  
max-a-mill
aspiring dirtbag commuter
 
max-a-mill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: philly
Posts: 2,123
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
https://www.ernestolube.com/
max-a-mill is offline  
Old 01-27-08, 05:16 PM
  #3  
I_bRAD
Call me The Breeze
 
I_bRAD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cooper Ontario
Posts: 3,701

Bikes: 2004 Litespeed Siena, 1996 Litespeed Obed, 1992 Miele (unknown model), 1982 Meile Uno LS.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 3 Posts
It should be noted that soy wax would likely be made from GMO soybeans, packed into monoculture fields and sustained by petrochemical fertilizer. Just sayin.
I_bRAD is offline  
Old 01-27-08, 06:56 PM
  #4  
Severian
META
 
Severian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 945

Bikes: Gary Fisher Aquila (retired), Specialized Allez Sport (in parts), Cannondale R500, HP Velotechnic Street Machine, Dented Blue Fixed Gear (retired), Seven Tsunami SSFG, Specialized Stumpjumper Comp Hardtail (alloy version)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 1 Post
+1 I_bRAD

I'd say go for a teflon based lube. Usually its teflon powder suspended in an alcohol base. Alcohol dries away leaves teflon behind. Downside is that it washes off when the chain gets wet. Upside: when in dusty conditions it doesn't get dirty as quickly.
Severian is offline  
Old 01-27-08, 07:04 PM
  #5  
late
Senior Member
 
late's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Southern Maine
Posts: 8,668
Mentioned: 114 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10179 Post(s)
Liked 440 Times in 344 Posts
I got some Dupont Teflon wax base spray lubricant at Lowes.
Gonna try it come Spring.
https://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/motor...chain-lube.htm
late is offline  
Old 01-27-08, 07:37 PM
  #6  
Jarery
Senior Member
 
Jarery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Coquitlam
Posts: 2,538
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
How far do you want to go in your elimination? Since most of the non petroleum lubes come in a plastic container made from....well you know.
Jarery is offline  
Old 01-27-08, 08:05 PM
  #7  
Roody
Sophomoric Member
 
Roody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dancing in Lansing
Posts: 24,221
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 711 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Lithium grease? Does that contain petroleum? Anyway it's a pretty good lube.

I've heard of people using beeswax, but I think they dissolved it in kerosene or gasoline. White Lightening is my favorite summertime lube. It's a wax, but it might contain some form of petroleum.

Did anybody ever try plain old vegetable oil? I would reccommend canola if your bike has any cholesterol problems. No trans fats!
__________________

"Think Outside the Cage"
Roody is offline  
Old 01-27-08, 10:19 PM
  #8  
orange leader
B-b-b-b-b-b-bicicle Rider
 
orange leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Racine WI
Posts: 749

Bikes: 1997, stumpjumper S-works hardtail, Medici, Giant Perigee(track dropouts and fixed gear), Columbia twosome, schwinn twinn, '67 raleigh 5 speed internal hub, Old triumph 3 speed, old BSA 3-speed, schwinn Racer 2spd kickback, Broken raysport criteriu

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Severian View Post
+1 I_bRAD

I'd say go for a teflon based lube. Usually its teflon powder suspended in an alcohol base. Alcohol dries away leaves teflon behind. Downside is that it washes off when the chain gets wet. Upside: when in dusty conditions it doesn't get dirty as quickly.
So the OP is worried about using petroleum,...... and you suggest TEFLON? it's a poison! I know 90% of america cooks on it, but it's still rated as a poison. The only reason it's allowed on cookware is because it's coated in whatever makes it stick to the pan. Teflon by itself would not stick to the pan, it would flake off.

Also, as far as the GMO soy plants go. the point of GM (genetically modified) plants is to use fewer pesticides and/or fertilizers, and still get yield. Yes, there are still unknowns with frankenfarming, but I feel they are going to outweigh the problems, like say... 6- legged frogs, or just plain dead frogs from teflon lined ponds.
orange leader is offline  
Old 01-27-08, 10:37 PM
  #9  
Roody
Sophomoric Member
 
Roody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dancing in Lansing
Posts: 24,221
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 711 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by orange leader View Post
So the OP is worried about using petroleum,...... and you suggest TEFLON? it's a poison! I know 90% of america cooks on it, but it's still rated as a poison. The only reason it's allowed on cookware is because it's coated in whatever makes it stick to the pan. Teflon by itself would not stick to the pan, it would flake off.
I always wondered about that. Since nothing sticks to teflon, how do they get it to stick to the pan?

I was thinking that maybe the OP doesn't want to use petroleum for ecological reasons. Sorta like some people are vegetarians because raising animals is bad for the environment, not so much because it's cruel to the animals.
__________________

"Think Outside the Cage"
Roody is offline  
Old 01-27-08, 10:37 PM
  #10  
bhchdh 
Senior Member
 
bhchdh's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Hampton Roads VA
Posts: 1,788

Bikes: '07 Trek 520, '09 Gary Fisher Triton, '04 Trek 8000, '85 Trek 500, '84 Trek 610, '85 Trek 510, '88 Trek 660, '92 Trek 930, Trek Multitrack 700

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
https://www.chainjisgood.com/

Pedro's canola oil based chain lube.
bhchdh is offline  
Old 01-27-08, 11:19 PM
  #11  
Roody
Sophomoric Member
 
Roody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dancing in Lansing
Posts: 24,221
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 711 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by bhchdh View Post
https://www.chainjisgood.com/

Pedro's canola oil based chain lube.
Bingo!
__________________

"Think Outside the Cage"
Roody is offline  
Old 01-28-08, 01:41 AM
  #12  
Severian
META
 
Severian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 945

Bikes: Gary Fisher Aquila (retired), Specialized Allez Sport (in parts), Cannondale R500, HP Velotechnic Street Machine, Dented Blue Fixed Gear (retired), Seven Tsunami SSFG, Specialized Stumpjumper Comp Hardtail (alloy version)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by orange leader View Post
So the OP is worried about using petroleum,...... and you suggest TEFLON? it's a poison! I know 90% of america cooks on it, but it's still rated as a poison. The only reason it's allowed on cookware is because it's coated in whatever makes it stick to the pan. Teflon by itself would not stick to the pan, it would flake off.

Also, as far as the GMO soy plants go. the point of GM (genetically modified) plants is to use fewer pesticides and/or fertilizers, and still get yield. Yes, there are still unknowns with frankenfarming, but I feel they are going to outweigh the problems, like say... 6- legged frogs, or just plain dead frogs from teflon lined ponds.
you started it:

GMO plants have shown a high rate of cross-contamination with non GMO plants. And since GMO plants are all genetically identical the possibility of losing your whole crop to one disease is vastly increased. AND GMO seed is vastly more expensive than standard seed, which you need to use petroleum based pesticides and fertilizers on.

Teflon lined ponds?!?
Severian is offline  
Old 01-28-08, 01:56 AM
  #13  
Ziemas
Senior Member
 
Ziemas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 10,082
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
^^^

Don't forget Terminator Technology seeds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminator_Technology
Ziemas is offline  
Old 01-28-08, 04:44 AM
  #14  
doraemonkey
Senior Membre
 
doraemonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Rennes, France
Posts: 266

Bikes: '87 Cannondale Team Comp, 98 Cannondale F900, 08 Bike Friday Tikit

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Severian View Post
you started it:
GMO plants have shown a high rate of cross-contamination with non GMO plants. And since GMO plants are all genetically identical the possibility of losing your whole crop to one disease is vastly increased. AND GMO seed is vastly more expensive than standard seed, which you need to use petroleum based pesticides and fertilizers on.
IANAG, I am not a geneticist, but I can play devils advocate (ICPDA). I not think you can really say all GM plants are genetically identical. They can be actually genetically diverse, but all share a common gene which usually codes for one or a few proteins, the rest of the gene pool is left unmodified.

The topic of GMOs is very complex and to me can't be reduced to direct gene modification vs. artificial selection. Weve been modifying the gene pool of organisms for thousands of years already. We've been making grass wheetier, wolves doggier, seeds nuttier, and cats more LOLier for ages. The real issue to me is intelectual property rights and the industrialization of these genes. Who owns you?

OK, back to the topic at hand: as many posters have mentioned, is eliminating a few drops of light oil really an effective way to ween one's self from the petrochemical industry? Already getting on a bike eliminates a good bit compared to using the car. But there are a lot of a lots of other places that we rely on petrochem. Reduction is good principle, but eliminating it all doesn't make sense.
doraemonkey is offline  
Old 01-28-08, 06:50 AM
  #15  
Cyclaholic
CRIKEY!!!!!!!
 
Cyclaholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: all the way down under
Posts: 4,268

Bikes: several

Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1200 Post(s)
Liked 232 Times in 136 Posts
Originally Posted by Ziemas View Post
^^^

Don't forget Terminator Technology seeds.
are those seeds that travel back in time to kill John Connor?

(disclaimer: i am somewhat bored and have nothing constructive to add to this thread )
Cyclaholic is offline  
Old 01-28-08, 08:14 AM
  #16  
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 26,691

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9982 Post(s)
Liked 2,114 Times in 1,457 Posts
Originally Posted by doraemonkey View Post

OK, back to the topic at hand: as many posters have mentioned, is eliminating a few drops of light oil really an effective way to ween one's self from the petrochemical industry? Already getting on a bike eliminates a good bit compared to using the car. But there are a lot of a lots of other places that we rely on petrochem. Reduction is good principle, but eliminating it all doesn't make sense.
I suppose to really eliminate all the petro products he would have to go to wooden wheels too.
genec is online now  
Old 01-28-08, 08:35 AM
  #17  
ItsJustMe
Se˝ior Member
 
ItsJustMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 13,749

Bikes: Windsor Fens, Giant Seek 0 (2014, Alfine 8 + discs)

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 446 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by orange leader View Post
So the OP is worried about using petroleum,...... and you suggest TEFLON? it's a poison! I know 90% of america cooks on it, but it's still rated as a poison. The only reason it's allowed on cookware is because it's coated in whatever makes it stick to the pan. Teflon by itself would not stick to the pan, it would flake off.
Uh, NO. Teflon is completely chemically inert and nontoxic. If it's BURNED at temps in excess of something like 500*F, it DEGRADES into a vapor that is poisonous. Many things degrade into poisons when burned; wood for example.

You can eat teflon all day long and not have a problem. Just don't burn it and breathe the vapors. Human effects of breathing high concentration of the vapors are short term flu-like effects. Birds are highly susceptible; they will probably die if they're in a room where it happens.

It's not COATED in anything. What's on top is teflon. The way they get it to stick is to first sandblast the metal, then coat it with a material that bonds to both teflon and metals like aluminum, then they put on the teflon. The coating underneath does not affect the toxicity (or lack thereof) of the stuff your food actually touches.

Teflon is perfectly safe if you keep it below about 500*F. IOW, don't use nonstick cookware for very high temp cooking methods, use cast iron. nonstick is great and safe when used as intended. The FDA sez that the toxicity of fumes released from the "all natural" vegetable oil used in cooking are worse than those of teflon.

My bike doesn't get up to 500*F, even when I'm sprinting

Just because something is artificial does not mean it's not sustainable. I don't know if the process involves petrochemicals or not (apart from providing energy). It's a CFC derivative; If you're going to eliminate teflon, be sure to stop wearing GoreTex; it's also a fluorene derivative.

Be sure to wear all natural fibers too; almost all technical fibers are petrochemical based.

Back on topic, I guess I'd try beeswax. Paraffin seems to work well for many people, so beeswax is probably worth a try.
__________________
Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.
ItsJustMe is offline  
Old 01-28-08, 08:41 AM
  #18  
ItsJustMe
Se˝ior Member
 
ItsJustMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 13,749

Bikes: Windsor Fens, Giant Seek 0 (2014, Alfine 8 + discs)

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 446 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by vincentpaul View Post
I'm interested in eliminating non-renewable compounds from my bicycle maintenance routine. I've seen several recommendations in the forums here for the use of paraffin wax as a chain lubricant. Has any body tried soy wax or bees wax? Are there any other non-petroleum-based chain lubricants available? How about grease or light lubricant substitutes?
Here's probably the best non-petroleum-based lube you'll find: Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil (or some other synthetic). Synthetics are usually made from stuff like carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide and methane, all of which are bad greenhouse gasses or are poisonous, and they combine them into nice well-behaved hydrocarbon chains.

I am being serious here. A little research may be needed; it's possible that some manufacturers use petrochemicals as a base ingredient.
__________________
Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.
ItsJustMe is offline  
Old 01-28-08, 09:47 AM
  #19  
JeffS
not a role model
 
JeffS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,659
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I would agree that a high-quality synthetic oil would be petro-free (aside from the obvious packaging, powering, transportation, etc... inherent with all products) and would be much more cost-effective than the little bike bottles.

I recently switched my fixie from the Dupont spray above to some Motul gear oil I had left over from my car days - solely because it runs much quieter. The downside is it probably requires more frequent cleaning.

As mentioned though, the key is the base. Motul oils are a 100% synthetic esther base. Many of the lower-end "synthetics" (Catrol Syntec comes to mind) are nothing more than reformulated dino oils. There were some court battles over the naming at one point, but the courts ruled on a VERY broad interpretation of synthetic.

Anyway, I'm not an oil geek, although I absorbed some of the information when I was a car/track guy.

My main point would be that if you're going to use a straight oil like this, it's simply more cost-effective to use something that's not bike-specific - and it would meet your needs. I've been doing my best to avoid **** seed oil (canola) for some time now, and wouldn't feel any better about putting it on my bike.
JeffS is offline  
Old 01-28-08, 11:09 AM
  #20  
vincentpaul
Artful Dodger
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I didn't realize that these products weren't derived from petroleum. I'll look into them. And thanks for yours and all the other posters thoughtful comments. I'm not anti-technology, nor am I anti-genetic engineering. I am, however, in favor of breaking our economy's dependence/addiction on a substance (petroleum) that is non-sustainable and supplied by countries I'd rather we didn't do business with. I view it as doing my part in the various wars we're involved in. It's one of the main reasons that I commute by bike, after exercise. If we have no dependence on their oil, we stop messing with them and a variety of problems go away. I'd like to support products that are produced internally as they provides job and reduce foreign dependence.
vincentpaul is offline  
Old 01-28-08, 12:04 PM
  #21  
ItsJustMe
Se˝ior Member
 
ItsJustMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 13,749

Bikes: Windsor Fens, Giant Seek 0 (2014, Alfine 8 + discs)

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 446 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
We're in the same mindframe then. I'm partially in it for reducing oil dependence. That's one of the reasons why I'm so irritated with the love affair with corn-based ethanol. So much oil is used in the production of the ethanol that it amounts to nothing more than a subsidy for farmers. We need other answers.

As was mentioned by myself and JeffS, SOME synthetics are dinosaur-based. Research is warranted. If someone knows, or does the research, please post back here.
__________________
Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.
ItsJustMe is offline  
Old 01-28-08, 01:03 PM
  #22  
Mr. Underbridge
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Reston, VA
Posts: 2,369

Bikes: 2003 Giant OCR2

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by orange leader View Post
So the OP is worried about using petroleum,...... and you suggest TEFLON? it's a poison! I know 90% of america cooks on it, but it's still rated as a poison. The only reason it's allowed on cookware is because it's coated in whatever makes it stick to the pan. Teflon by itself would not stick to the pan, it would flake off.

Also, as far as the GMO soy plants go. the point of GM (genetically modified) plants is to use fewer pesticides and/or fertilizers, and still get yield. Yes, there are still unknowns with frankenfarming, but I feel they are going to outweigh the problems, like say... 6- legged frogs, or just plain dead frogs from teflon lined ponds.
What the hell? Teflon isn't a poison, it's pretty much inert. See its Material Safety Data Sheet: https://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/PO/po...oethylene.html

The only hazard is from inhaling Teflon powder en masse, which if you don't work in a teflon plant while wearing no protective gear, you're not going to be doing.

I don't know where people get this stuff sometimes.
Mr. Underbridge is offline  
Old 01-28-08, 02:40 PM
  #23  
littlefoot
Senior Member
 
littlefoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upstate, S.C.
Posts: 493

Bikes: Many all steel.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
https://www.astroglide.com/

oops wrong forums
littlefoot is offline  
Old 01-28-08, 03:05 PM
  #24  
vincentpaul
Artful Dodger
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by littlefoot View Post
https://www.astroglide.com/

oops wrong forums
Never know, might be dual use. Like the old Dan Akroyd and Jane Curtain skit "It's a desert topping, AND a floor wax!"
vincentpaul is offline  
Old 01-28-08, 03:37 PM
  #25  
bigbenaugust 
always rides with luggage
 
bigbenaugust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: KIGX
Posts: 2,109

Bikes: 2007 Trek SU100, 2009 Fantom CX, 2012 Fantom Cross Uno, Bakfiets

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 273 Post(s)
Liked 17 Times in 14 Posts
Originally Posted by bhchdh View Post
https://www.chainjisgood.com/

Pedro's canola oil based chain lube.
Is anyone using this stuff? Can anyone say how good/bad it is? I just this week bought a new bottle of Cross Country lube, but I could be persuaded to try plant-based lube the next time around.

... has anyone tried straight olive oil?
__________________
--Ben
2006 Trek SU100, 2009 Motobecane Fantom CX, 2011 Motobecane Fantom Cross Uno, and a Bakfiets
Previously: 2000 Trek 4500 (2000-2003), 2003 Novara Randonee (2003-2006), 2003 Giant Rainier (2003-2008), 2005 Xootr Swift (2005-2007), 2007 Nashbar 1x9 (2007-2011), 2011 Windsor Shetland (2011-2014), 2008 Citizen Folder (2015)
Non-Bike hardware: MX Linux / BunsenLabs Linux / Raspbian / Mac OS 10.6 / Android 7
bigbenaugust is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright ę 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.