Like you have done either and are commenting on the merits first hand? :rolleyes: No, please. Give me a break. Write back when you've actually built yours and have actually tried to load it.

I have an Xtracycle. I at least know what I'm talking about. If/when you get yours, you will know too.

I think the Dummy and the other longtails are going to finally give North America its own style of utility bike, much like the bakfiets has done for Northern Europe. Now I'd like to see the longatil offered with a huge waterproof rear box like the bakfiet has.

My my my...someone rolls a virtual Big Dummy into the room and next thing you know, we got folks pissing in their neighbor's cornflakes.

Me? I've never had a nice touring bike, or a cargo bicycle for that matter.

But I know one thing: when I saw the Big Dummy for the first time, I got excited. As in, little kid with his first bicycle kinda excited. Remember that feeling?

You could even say I got inspired, if that's not too much drama for ya. Inspired to change my behavior and stop using my Tacoma for stupid little tasks around town. Inspired to make changes beyond the proposed functionality of the Big Dummy: we've been recycling every day, planning a garden for the first time, supporting our local organic farmers, and more.

"Wait, ALL because you saw a #$%& photo of the Big Dummy?"

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.

So, I'm not here to piss on your cornflakes. I'll assume that most of you here are much wiser and more experienced than me when it comes to touring/commuting/hauling stuff on a bicycle.

Meanwhile, I've got a Dummy waiting for me in Pennsylvania, and I'm pretty doggone stoked about the bike and where it's already "taking me," let alone where it'll take me once it's here.

DWNPTRL_777
A simple SOB

amen brutha amen

Just to be clear:

1. In the midst of passion, don't neglect reason (reason even still applies in a postmodern mindset as well).

2. Saying something is overpriced does NOT mean:
- it is not useful
- it cannot change or alter your lifestyle for the better
- it does not have other tangible/intangible benefits
- it is a bad design
- it is unequivocal proof that you are evil for purchasing/consuming said item

But fanaticism and unhealthy brand loyalty make you think someone is saying these things when s/he is not.

Saying something is overpriced just means, compared to other similar items fulfilling the same wants or needs, it is overpriced. I suppose this should be distinguished from someone who says "I'm not paying that because, in general, I'm cheap." But on forums, it is hard to distinguish because both concepts seem related, depending on the individual.

3. Xtracyle and/or Surly really needs to come out with a good kickstand esp. for heavy/severe cargo loading. It will make the bike more useful in general and will be a benefit to Big Dummy as well as Xtracycle owners, and may spur other cargo bike makers to do the same. Of their whole longtail design, the kickstand, imo, is their weakest, and in many ways most crucial, oversight (others are free to amend this opinion or disagree). My explicit criticisms were/are confined mainly to this area.

Moreover, be of good cheer. I don't think anyone has an ethical or moral problem with longtails, and I'm glad a mere picture could change your life so radically. You must be a visual learner. :)

Lots of cheer on this end! Prolly didn't communicate that in my last post now that I re-read it, but I'm practically smilin' as I type. Even now.

You bring up some great points, and my happy-go-lucky smiles aside, those points certainly rate discussion. The kickstand issue is an interesting one to me—I assumed the Hebie would be an option. Silly me. Price/value? Meh...We could argue that one all month without much resolve, I'm sure. For instance, I would have paid much more for the BD frame. But that's me.

I will throw this nugget onto the table: I'd offer that the Dummy is one of the most exciting things to happen to bicycling in the United States in a long time...

Well, after sinking the price of an xtracycle complete BD into car *maintenance* (some of it admittedly deferred a little too long) I know which I'd rather have.

Ok, so who's planning to build one with a dérailleur setup?

Does the extra chain length cause a problem with shifting? I guess I'm on the fence between going this route, or considering a Rohloff or Nuvinci. Unfortunately, the only spare 26" wheels I have are a superlight XC set, so I'm going to have to buy something new regardless.

every xtracycle I've seen around town not only has that long chain across a like 3x7 setup but also canti or maybe v brakes, so I would think a BD would work fine w/ the long chain too. A rohloff and discs would be tres sweet though.

WOOOOO HOOOOO! My shop just ordered me the LAST 22in frame currently available! Can't wait, been drooling for one since the initial news hit.

For us big boys, the standard Free Radical Kit can only take so much load. My Free Radical is hooked up to a Breezer Uptown, and when that thing has about 100+lb on it, it gets REAL flexy. My hope is the straight-to-dropout seat stays on the BD will offer a lot more lateral support and let me carry loads like this without feeling like I'm driving a big floppin' wet dolphin!

Plan to do mine with most of the bits off the Breezer, Nexus 8 internal hub, MAYBE a gen hub disc compatible front wheel, ect.

Fack, similar thing just happened to me. Was planning on building up either a BD or a Karate Monkey with a free radical, but then I took my truck in for its 100,000 km maintenance (its a 1999 model, so it doesn't get driven much) and wham! $2700 hit to my bank account. $1600 for a BD seems like a great deal now.

Heh, like some people in this thread, I am putting my car for sale to get more bikes. And the Big Dummy is one of them. Unfortunately it is too late and I am geographically disadvantaged. Living in France I don't have the opportunity to hop back to the USA for buying an overlong bike. And just how would a BD frame fit in the plane? Not in the cabin.

I'll be waiting for the second batch this summer. I hope that there will be some available then... and that the Euro is still as strong as it is now... $1.50! Thats good for a nice discount on one of these frames... Now I can take the time to think about what size frame to get... all these big guys buying the second smallest frame size... I guess you aren't going for the C-bars are you?

WOW can you believe that guy put drops on his Big Dummy?

Yeah, I can cause it's my bike. It actually rides great. While I know it looks like a crazy reach, it's actually a 1.5 cm shorter reach than my Cross Check which is a 54 cm frame and 1/5 cm longer reach than my Masi race bike. I think this difference is mainly due to the varience between the saddle height and bar height. The Big Dummy is a 20 inch frame.

As far as cost goes, I bought the frame and fork and built it up myself. The only thing I had to do to the frame was chase the threads in the bottom bracket. Other than that it was just about perfect. I had all the other components already. For those of you concerned about price, my cost for the build was less than $1200.00 dollars. Money well spent in my opinion. I wanted to build it up myself because I knew it would be much cheaper and I didn't really care for the components they had on it.

I've been riding it around for a few days and I really enjoy it. It rides nicely. The long tail really really isn't a factor that I've noticed. Ride quality is somewhat between my Cross Check and the LHT. I mainly compare it to the LHT in terms of steering and my comfortable cruising speed. Both feel about the same.

I haven't carried a load with it yet, mainly because I haven't gotten my xtracycle racks. However I've commuted on it since I've gotten it built up and I really think it was a well thought out frame. I've been car free for two years now, and the few difficulties that I've encountered during that time will be much easier to deal with now IMO.

If you do have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

I'm a big boy too. I haven't noticed any frame flex hitting potholes, bumps, curbs, etc... the things I usually notice problems like that on. This was actually a concern for me when I bought the frame. So far that concern has been unfounded. Even had someone standing on the back of the frame (there's a spot on the frame similar to the footsies from xtracycle) and didn't have a problem. He probably weighs about 160-170.

I'm running Campy Veloce triple (52/42/30) with an Ultegra FD to an XT rear with an XT 11-34 cassette on it. Bar end shifters are in friction mode now, but that's mainly because I haven't had time to dial it in as well as I'd like to for the index mode. Shifts fine.

My main concern was chain slap on the cross member (where a rear wheel would be on a regular length bike) so I wrapped it with electrical tape to protect the powdercoat. So far that concern has been unfounded. The only difficult part I had was figuring out how to use the bottom pull FD on a frame designed for a top pull FD. Top pulls aren't compatible with my current chainring set up and I didn't want to buy a new one. I was able to figure it out with a little help from my LBS. We brainstormed a bit and solved it. My main problem was that the downtube is huge, around 35mm IIRC. So most adapters on the market wouldn't work.

If anyone is planning on using a road set up on the front and needs to use a bottom pull derailluer'. just let me know and I can take some pics to get you started.

With 5 bikes in the garage already, I don't think there's room for a BD.

Besides, my Surly LHT with shopping panniers and BOB trailer attached can haul as much crap as I care to pull.

Got that right! I see a big "L" appear on the foreheads of roadies that ask why I bother with a kickstand. Ever try to find something in a pannier with the bike laying on the ground? DUH!

What's wrong with this kickstand?

http://www.xtracycle.com/rock-sturdy-stand-p-82.html

Seriously. Since I've really never used one and I'm researching them now what do you not like about it?

BLASPHEMY! There is always room for another bike.

A folding version of the rock sturdy stand would, well, rock. That would be EXACTLY what I'd be looking for: stable under load even to the extent that you could blend a smoothie! :)

The problem with this particular stand is that, when you're loaded, you have to somehow manually pull the stand up on the right AND on the left without your loaded rig tipping over; each stand is independent of the other. From what I gather, you can either twist each stand up and somehow hold or velcro it against your Freeloaders, or you have to physically remove each one and toss them in your Freeloader. Either method seems too cumbersome and potentially dangerous depending on your load.

Jenson is listing a 16" in stock if anyone's still looking.

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/produ...+Frameset.aspx

Gotcha.

I saw that, but thought I was just misreading it. Apparently not.

I've been considering a Nuvinci. Anyone had any actual experience with them in the wild?

No.
But I know where you're going with that. :)




http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1409/...dfaa9d.jpg?v=0

^^ That's what I'm talkin' 'bout.

Yes.
Have it laced double crossed, triple cross will put the nipples at an extreme angle.
It's completely silent, no click/clack when you cost.
The shift feel is very smooth.
The hub is the size of a New York pizza.
I think it may be more robust than my Rohloffs.
The shifter turns backwards to a Rohloff shifter.
250% gear range.
It weighs more than a New York pizza.
Has handled heavy loads on my frankenXtraGiantThing for a year or so now, not even a hiccup.
The perfect match for long-tailed bikes.

Images:
NuVinci & ruler
NuVinci 2
NuVinci 3
Shifter
.gif of the shifter
My pretty pretty bike