zackmini

I know there are a ton of threads about commuter bikes, but I have four in mind and want some others' opinions about the advantages/disadvantages of each one--if anyone has any of these bikes, please tell me how you like them.

About me and my commute:
I'm about 5' 9". I would commute 6 miles back and forth each work day, so 12 miles 5 days a week. The biggest incline would be a bridge across the East River (NYC).

The bikes I'm considering are:
1. The Novara Fusion: https://www.rei.com/product/744803
2. The Electra Amsterdam: https://www.electrabike.com/amsterdam/
3. The Kronan: usa site here: https://www.kronan.com/USA
pictures here: https://www.bouf.com/buy/product/1368
4. The Jorg & Olif Opa: https://www.jorgandolif.com/opa_scout.html

I haven't commuted by bike before, and I like how these look good, have nice features, etc. etc.
If you know a bike like these that would be nice, my requirements are
1. Rear bike rack
2. Front lights powered by dynamo
3. Under $800
4. Can ship to U.S.

Please tell me info on the above 4 bikes. Do you have one? How do you like it?

Thanks in advance everyone,
Zack

daintonj

I really don't understand why you'd buy a bike like this. Why spend more money to get an technically antiquated old fashioned design when a cheap modern rigid mountain bike would be perfect? If you were cycling in the wilds of bornea and needed a bike which could be repaired with only a large rock (and most likely was designed on one) then I could see why, but you're in a city - only metres away from civilisation, coffee and buildings with roofs.
Just because the Dutch use them doesn't mean you should. Have you ever been over there, it's hundreds of people wandering along at 10mph in an environment where you need a cheap bike as there's a good chance you'll forget which giant pile of bikes you left it in.

nowheels

Take a look at a Jamis coda.... it's a very good bike and makes a great commuter. Still sorry I sold mine.

wahoonc

Take a look at the Redline R530...I just bought one an am very impressed. Only down side is that it doesn't come with the lights. Breezer is another you should look at too. I believe the Breezer Citizen or Villager is in the price range. I bought the Redline because I couldn't find a stocking Breezer dealer within a 12 hour drive! The Redline doesn't come with lights, but you can get a pretty decent generator set from Velo-Orange or create your own setup (which is what I am doing). I paid right at $600 for the bike, by the time I am done with all the pimping and upgrades I will be sitting at just shy of $1000. But that includes some high dollar stuff, like LED Headlight, Brooks Saddle and a set of Basil Karavan Panniers ($175 by themselves)

Aaron

zackmini

OK, but out of the above 4, which do you think is the best in my situation?

JeffS

I would steer you away from the original 3-speed Amsterdam. I've gotten more attached to mine as time goes by (It's used solely to carry my daughter around the neighborhood), but it's still not suited to the commute. The front lighting system is a total POS, and the rack is not sturdy - amongst other things.

I might consider the new Sport 9 or Balloon 8, though they're considerably different and don't have all the features you're looking for.

Schwinnsta

I recently saw a Breezer Villager at my bike shop for $800. It would meet your needs.

mrbubbles

Novara Fusion. That's because I like internal gears, generator hub, and drum brakes. Almost no drivetrain maintenance ever. Stay away from Jorg & Olif, POS.

donnamb 

I think you need to try them out. All 4 in their own way are very different rides. You will have to decide for yourself which one you like best.

My brother's fiancee tried the Novara Fusion, the Electra Amsterdam, and an Azor Oma. The Azor is similar in geometry to the Jorg & Olif. She preferred the Oma, but she had no idea until she tried them all out. She found both the Fusion and the Amsterdam to be uncomfortable for her. YMMV.

What is wrong with the Jorg & Olif? There is a shop here who sell Azors and they are definitely not POS. I'm genuinely curious about the differences.

st0ut

One thing to consider is taht Holland is FLAT florida flat with a moderate climate. thihese bikes are fine for 10km flat but nothing more.

envane

The Novara Fusion is the best out of those on specs, by far. Also investigate the Breezer line as others have mentioned.

Kronan, Jorg & Olif = stay away from overpriced imported hipster crap. Yeah I know people actually ride them in Europe everyday, but this isn't Europe.

duppie

That would make these bikes ideal for his commute. Nearly flat 6 miles = 10 km........

Duppie

Shinyville

Totally disagree--there are some junky dutch bikes, but the best of them are incredibly well-refined vehicles. My wife rides a Gazelle commuter that's has a number of really nice technical refinements and is perfect for commuting state-side, too. They're not made to win any races, for sure, but they're not the slowest bikes on the road, either. Her Gazelle is an incredibly stable ride. Here's a picture of hers:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/shinyvi...n/photostream/

Of the bikes the OP is considering, I've been researching a similar set of bikes for the last few months. I wanted an 8-speed internal hub, fenders/racks/lights or braze-ons to properly add all of the above, and I was leaning toward the Dutch-style extremely upright geometry. I had basically narrowed my choices down to the Electra Amsterdam Royal and the Bianchi Milano...but then I rode an Electra Townie. I bought my Townie 8 700c two weeks ago, and so far I've put about 100 miles on it so far. I got last year's model for relatively cheap, which looks like this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/shinyville/2458841621/

The Townie actually feels much closer to the "dutch bike" geometry-wise than the Amsterdam, to me. And the Amsterdam feels a little rickety in riding, too, where the Townie feels much more stable. The Townie again probably won't win any races, but I have noticed that its top speed is distinctly faster than my old Breezer Freedom with a 3-speed hub. I'm really happy with it so far, and if you're enjoying that ultra-upright seating position, you'll very much enjoy the feel.

The 8 speed version with the 700c wheels comes with lights/fenders/rear rack, so that covers the rest of the stuff you're looking for, and the street price should be right around $800. So something to consider if you're already out test-riding an Amsterdam by comparison...

The Breezer bikes other people are mentioning are nice, too, but the Breezer concept of "upright" isn't nearly so upright as the Dutch bike designs. I've beat my Breezer into the ground commuting on it over the last three years, and I'm planning to keep it, repair/upgrade some components, and turn it into my winter commuting bike. The Breezers are built on 26 inch wheels, and they are much more "nimble" in terms of handling, cornering, etc. So I'm thinking spiked tires and commuting on snow-packed/icy streets w/the Breezer.

donnamb 

The 8 speed hub are fine for all but the steepest of hills. I ride one every day.

I "Dutchified" my Breezer. It's really great.

derail3

I do not personally have any experance with a Breezer or a duch bike. A friend I have know for years wanted a Breezer in the worst way about two years ago. But there were no Breezer dealers near him in Delaware (USA). When he contacted Breezer about not having dealer near him. Breezer recomened that they could ship the bike to his local bike shop for assembly, and would still honor the warrantee. Has been riding it to work every day for two years now and thinks it great.

There is a lady named Alex in Chicago that just got her new OMA duch bike two weeks ago. She has a running blog about her daily life using the OMA in place of her car. She talks about the good and bad

https://hankandme.blogspot.com/

wahoonc

Not really...it does have hills and they use these same bicycles in Denmark, which isn't flat and quite often has wind chills close to zero.

Aaron

stockholm

Word of advice: stay clear of Kronan bikes. All looks and no substance. Downright dangerous, actually.

Torrilin

My Dutch gaming buddies would disagree . But then, they know what I call a hill. And yes, both places can get quite cold. They tend to figure if the ride is more than about 20-30km, they should maybe think about riding something other than a city bike. And if they're visiting each other, it's bike on the train time. Telling 'em about bike shopping in the US was good for *lots* of jaw drop moments.

Anyway, I was looking at a variety of Dutch type bikes. I ended up with a Breezer because it fit me the best out of the locally available choices. It is not as upright as a traditional Dutch bike and I haven't put it through anything long yet (literally brought it home yesterday). Since I'm a woman with short legs and I tend to haul lots of cargo, the 26" wheels should work well and be pretty bombproof.

A local friend has a Novara Transfer and is blissfully happy with it. His uses are a lot like mine, but he's comfier on REI geometry than I am. His *only* complaint is the gearing is a bit low for him, but he knows it's a fixable thing and is being lazy about the fixes.

wahoonc

Just goes to show...you need to get what works for you. I rode a undersized Raleigh 3 speed for years as my main source of transportation...worked great. Then a couple of years ago I got a Raleigh that was the next frame size up...amazing. Now I have a Redline R530 that fits even better, plus has more gears! I still love the feel of the Raleigh but the Redline makes a better utility bike for me. And unlike Torillin I can stand to have a larger wheel and love the rolling along on the 700c's on the Redline. My first impression of the Redline when I saw it; "Dayum that thing is huge!" it is parked next to my Raleigh Superbe, but the critical measurements are very similar (pedal to saddle) and (saddle to handle bars)

Aaron

nextstopwillbe

thought i might cloud the issue a bit further. i commute 3 days a week (working my way up to 5) in nyc from crown heights in brooklyn to the upper east side. it's 22 miles round trip and includes crossing the w'burg bridge. a few months ago i bought a jamis commuter 3.0 and have been commuting on it ever since. it comes with fenders, internal 8 spd. hub, and a comfortable upright riding posture. i might also add that the price is super reasonable, i paid $500 for it and could have gotten last year's model for even less but i wanted the '08. i added a rack for about $30 and i'm good to go. as for lighting, i bought some fenix flashlights and twofish lockblocks last year that worked great.

PaulH

If you were to buy a car with no electrical system, no fenders, a crazy exposed drivetrain that would eat your clothing, tires that went flat every few weeks, wheel-rim brakes, a Rube Goldberg transmission with little cable-operated arms that iced up in the winter, no way to carry cargo, a funny seating position that necessitated that the driver wear special clothing, and an expectation that every driver should be a mechanic and tinker for an hour or so a week, would you call the result "technically advanced?"

Note: I don't necessarily object to these limitations. In fact, the 1910 Mercer Raceabout meets much of the above description, and it's one of the cars I would love to own. I would not find it fully suitable for my trips to work or the store, however.

Paul

ontheroadid

Zack, I'm not sure you're comparing apples to apples among those four, so part of your decision will depend on your preferences regarding chain-guards, number of gears, etc. But I can vouch that Electra and Novara make solid, dependable bikes.

Plus, REI (for the Novara) has very good service and a great return policy.

I'll suggest one more brand since you want a Dutch bike: Gazelle. Not sure they really have a US distributor, but I did find some available here:
https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/gazelle/dutch.htm

We rode Gazelles in the Netherlands a few weeks ago, and thought them to be very solid. They were equipped with Schwalbe tires, and out of 20 riders in the group there wasn't a single mechanical issue over a week's time -- not even a flat.

katmu

I would agree with the other posters that of the bikes you had listed, the Novara has the best specs and is a good value. I commute on a Breezer Villager and love it. No flats to date and our roads here are pretty bad. It handles nice, the lights are a nice plus though I did add an additional headlight. The Jamis Commuter is also worth a look.

robertlinthicum

A bit off topic, but I once read a satirical (overtly sexist & decidedly not PC) blog that held as its thesis that women fantasize about living in Europe and riding around an old city on a bicycle similar to the Dutch bicycles that are the subject of this thread. The blogger claimed that they dream about riding around a small, perfect town to cheese shops and bakeries, and a return home that evening to a romantic life of friends, home-cooked meals, and laughter. This entire fantasy, he claimed, was held together by this bike (with, one can only assume, a front wicker basket).

He even included a picture of what appeared to be an Azor Oma.

Discuss amongst yourselves.

robertlinthicum

That's right. What I like about these Dutch bikes is first that they are all about function over form, and that one can throw a leg over while wearing a suit and tie and look appropriate, i.e., like something other than an LDS missionary.

(Not that there is anything wrong with that.)