http://www.transalt.org/files/newsro...bicyclist.html

Long article but interesting about bike parking and abandoned bikes in NY

The reality is, it's not locked and we've had a number of, "If your name and number is not on it, it's going into the trash" basement cleanup days. I've said, I'm looking for the owner, so far no luck. The management company is the next step.

http://www.transalt.org/files/newsro...bandonbike.jpg

Bike on the left = leave it

Bike on the right = take it

Maybe I'm morally corrupt, but that's how I see things.

I agree with you.

There's ethics/morals, then there's the law.

Legally, abandonment typically requires the owner to voluntary forsake the property and involves a positive intention to part with ownership, although some cases holds that property is also abandoned when it is involuntarily lost or left without the hope and expectation of again acquiring it. In the case of bicycles, its very difficult to know if the true owner has the intention to part ownership or whether they ever hope or expect to acquire it again. Abandoned property becomes the property of the finder, subject to the superior claim of the owner. But if its not legally abandoned, and you take it, then that is theft/larceny (criminal) or conversion (civil). However, one could argue abandonment in court but typically the defendant would have to show the intent to abandon (which can be tough...particularly if the true owner shows up). Also, there may be governmental statutes that say abandoned property on public areas belongs to the government.

Other than abandoned, property may be "lost" or "mislaid", each with their own legal definitions (although some courts have apparently disregarded the distinctions):

“Lost property” is property that the owner has involuntarily parted with through neglect, carelessness, or inadvertence and of whose whereabouts the owner has no knowledge. The finder of lost property does not acquire absolute ownership, but acquires only such property interest or right as will enable him to keep it against all the world but the rightful owner.

“Mislaid property” is property that is intentionally put into a certain place and later forgotten, and it is presumed to have been left in the custody of the owner or occupier of the premises upon which it is found; finder of mislaid property acquires no ownership rights in it, and, where such property is found upon another's premises, the finder is required to turn it over to the owner of the premises. So I'd think the bike in the apt bike room belongs to the apt owner.

Anyways, there's a lot of legal precedent on whats lost, abandoned or mislaid. This is mostly just common law; specific statutes may also apply. It doesn't seem that there is any specific legal point where one can say "that bike is definitely abandoned." Breaking locks is always a dangerous proposition as they suggest some degree of continuing ownership.

I'll stop typing now.

This thread is still alive?

Update: The bike mentioned in the OP is still there. It hasn't moved. It's rotting away. The tires are cracked and flat. The seat is junk. This bike is abandoned, no two ways about it.

Dude, just take it.

You already got told this. If it has been abandoned, then it either belongs to the building owner (if it's on private property) or the city (if it's on public property). If it's on private property, speak to the building owner about their policy toward abandoned property. If it's on public property, speak to the city about their policy on abandoned property.

Come back in another six weeks, the answer will still be the same.

does your building have a notice board? you could take a picture of the bike and put up a notice to the owner, asking them to contact you.

I think at this point we need a pic posted of the bike. A close up of the cracked tires would be a bonus. A creative artistic pic I could use as a computer wallpaper for a few days would be a double bonus. Plus I just like seeing pics of NYC if that's where it is.

Run the number through the local sheriff just on the off chance that the bike is registered.

I'd leave a note and then tell the security in the nearest building, and perhaps a local cop also, that you've found this abandoned bike, what the situation is, and your phone number in case someone reports it stolen. I'd tell the security guys about it BEFORE you start to cut, in case a cop sees you and asks what the hell you're doing.

I think you're right, eventually it'll just rot and get cut off and thrown out. At least this way it's got a chance.

Run the number through the local sheriff just on the off chance that the bike is registered.

The local sheriff? Bike registration? This is New York City.

Thanks so much for your expert instruction in the law. I have no doubt that you are highly qualified to give such instruction. I'm sure your answer will be the same in six weeks. I don't care.

There's actually some good sense in this post. Although I don't think a New York local cop would really care one way or the other.

In any event, there's no more room in my already crowded apartment for another bike, due to a recent acquisition. Too bad. I hope someone puts this bike to good use -- it's a shame to see it simply dissolve into a pile of rust and rot. If it were a newer bike, I'm sure it would be stripped down to the frame by this point.

For the love of god just take the thing. If you run into this in the future, a 30 day notice should suffice. Any butthole who doesn't check his bike in 30 days doesn't deserve to own it. The world is not your gym locker where you can leave your stuff and let it waste away.

I would not leave a note on the bike; it's a sure signal to thieves that the bike is abandoned.

I noticed a bike that was chained to a bike rack at the train for a few weeks. One day the police slaps an abandoned bike warning on it stating that it'll be removed in 1 week unless it was moved. A couple months has passed and the bike frame is still there with the warning but the wheels and components have been stripped.

Ok a month goes by this bike is chained to the rack. Police guy slaps a notice on it and people scramble to strip it of anything of value before it goes in the trash. While it stinks that they did not wait until maybe the day before removal date, this doesn't necessarily qualify them as low life scum.

I presume the notice didn't say "...after which date, hey, anyone can take it," so how does stealing not qualify the people who stripped it as low life scum?

How ethical is it to let an abandoned bike go to waste?

Personally, I wouldn't take it, and it sounds like you're not going to anyway. However, I think it's wrong for somebody to just leave their stuff - bike, car, whatever - locked up/parked for an extended period of time anywhere other their own property or property that they lease. The world is not your private parking lot, be considerate to others and don't treat it that way.

At this point, I would take it, with no qualms whatsoever. This bicycle is clearly abandoned. It's been there a very long time. I don't know if the owner died, got deported, forgot about the bike, doesn't want it anymore, or what. But you're right, I'm not going to take it. As I said, no more room at home. But I wish someone would take it. Seems a waste to have it there forever.

I think the definition is going to depend on the location, what city, on public or private property, etc.

In my former neighborhood, a car left on the street without appropriate parking zone stickers could be towed after a couple of days (usually they were lazy and just booted the wheel).

In another neighborhood, a car with even the appropriate stickers left in derelict condition (flat tires) was slapped with a warning notice and towed when there was no response and he car remained unmoved (neighbors complained.) With impoundment, the clock starts on the time allowed before lawful sale/scrap of the vehicle.

On a university campus, if private property, they seem to be able to set rules as they wish. Bikes left after close of term could be considered abandoned, regardless of condition. They might require a property tag on bikes to give notice of suspected abandoned property. Obviously bikes deemed improperly secured, on railings, in access areas or in hallways or near building exits could be cut and removed without notice. But on a rack? Usually there would have to be some indication of abandonment, as in parts missing or general disrepair to indicate the bike was not rideable. I think that is generally up to discretion of people like campus security officials and/or groundskeeping and maintenance management personnel.

It is possible that someone previously stole the bike, and rode it around and then left it behind the dumpster when they flatted the tires. So when you see an abandoned bike it may not be abandoned by its rightful owner, but rather abandoned by the crackhead that stole it. In which case obviously the original owner isn't going to find it there so I would take it but maybe check with the police on the serial number?

At least in Toronto a 1970s 3 speed may be a very well loved commuter.

So why not just find out what's the deal with abandoned property in your area...as has already been suggested several times? That way you get to avoid qualms either way.

Because, as I said above, I'm no longer interested in this bike (no room for another), and because this area is a bit of a special case. I could go to five different police precincts, ask what the story is with abandoned bikes, and get five different answers. Mostly, this is the kind of thing the police really aren't going to care about one way or another, and they're certainly not going to be enthusiastic about finding out exactly what the rules are and what the police department's policy is in this situation. If there is a policy. At this point, this discussion is entirely abstract. I was surprised this thread was even still alive.

What seems to happen here in NYC is that if a bike is left in one spot for a long time, and it's in an obtrusive place, the owner of the property on which it's locked up will remove it. If it's on city property, every now and then the city will remove it, but that doesn't seem to happen often. If it's in an out of the way spot, it could stay there for months or years. I've actually seen this happen. If it's a half-way decent bike, eventually it will be stripped of any usable parts, leaving nothing but the frame and perhaps a rusty chain.

Suggestions about contacting the local sheriff, or seeing if the bike is registered, or leaving a note on the bike, are well-meaning, but don't have any bearing on the way things work in New York. There is no sheriff (OK, there is a sheriff's department in NYC, but it isn't what you might think -- the sheriff's department collects on judgments). Your typical beat cop doesn't want to be bothered with stuff like this. A note left on the bike would be gone in short order. Or overlooked among all the other garbage that's accumulating on this bike (coffee cups and empty bags, newspapers, etc., stuff in the spokes, between the fork and the wheel, all over the bike).

As to qualms, this bike has been exactly where it is since April. Maybe longer. I can't remember when exactly I first noticed it, but it may well have been in April, or even March, and it had obviously been there for some time even then. It's abandoned. No question about it.

But it's a moot question now. Thanks, everyone, for the suggestions, some of which were actually kind of helpful, or will be, if I ever run across this situation again at a time when I'm looking for another bike. As to the accusations or near-accusations of thievery or lack of a moral compass, well, this is the internet, and everyone's got an opinion, and nobody has to back up their opinions. I'm no thief. I've never stolen anything in my life.

It sounds abandoned to me, either because the owner doesn't have time or money or desire to fix it. The best ideal would be to leave a note perhaps help them fix it and make a new friend? mabye he/she got the bike for free and doesn't think its worth it to fix it. Its easy to forget that alot of people don't value the bikes they have.