I have had a Timbuk2 filled to the brim, both on motorcycle and bicycle, works excellent. I use a commute to carry my laptop on motorcycle, haven't tried it on the bicycle, but that bag has been back and forth to Europe 3 times for extended trips and still going strong. The company has off shored its production of there more fashionable bags, but I believe the core messenger bag is still made in SF.

edit:

That being said I have eye balling Chrome bags lately as a replacement for my messenger bag, they look like they are more stable, and I like the quick on and off buckle.

The problem with Timbuk2 is simply their strap design: it's terrible. Completely non-ergonomic.

It's fine if you're carrying a fairly light, flexible load, but as soon as you stuff your bag with something heavy and/or inflexible, the limitations of the strap become obvious. I used a Timbuk2 Commute for six months before it fell apart and then a Medium Messenger which is well made and lasted fine, but just wasn't comfortable when stuffed full.

Timbuk2 is still using the original design they came up with in the 80s. Real messenger bag companies evolve, develop, change their bags, and more importantly their straps, as they come up with new ideas or get suggestions. Compared to most of the other companies mentioned in this thread: Seagull, Chrome, Pac, Zugster, Courierware, Chicago Wig, etc., Timbuk2 just doesn't even compare. Great as a walk around shoulder bag, acceptable if you're only be carrying a few light items, but if you plan on using your bag as your trunk and your bicycle as your primary form of transportation, they're just awful.

Everyone is different, but I thought the same thing: Timbuk2 is fine for my needs. Now that I have a Pac Designs, I don't know why I suffered.

Timbuk2 makes nice stuff, they just need to update their strap design. They're the retro-grouches of the mess bag world.

Get a Chrome if you want something cheap and good (their backpacks are great too), get a Pac if you want the best.

Edit: I also ride a road bike in the drops, so I think that may affect my opinion.

My pro baileyworks bag is super comfy and very well made.
I regularly use it for commuting. It has been on a plane a few times as carry on luggage.
I even use it for centuries when using a bike without cargo capacity when the temps vary wildly. I had one in Feb that started at 10F and peaked around 60F. Perfectly comfortable.
I think I may take it up Mt Evans this Saturday.

I can't believe no one has mentioned the Seagull Black Bag. Definitely the best bag for the money. I don't have one, myself, but every review I've read on these and other forums has been very positive.

I use a Pac Designs Ultimate and it is amazing, but too expensive for some to justify (understandably). From everything I've read Pac, Baileyworks, Seagull, and Under the Weather seem to be the favorites.

http://www.rei.com/product/748091

i thought about getting one of these.
good price but i hate the color.

Details, details. Why would anyone expect a cloth bag of any kind NOT to leak in a down pour?? :rolleyes:

Most riders wear an old invention call a rainsuit and plastic bag whatever else they carry in the
rain. Yes, for half the price you can get a T2 but you're buying half the bag too. ;)

My Timbuk2 strap seems fine - but I may not carry as much as some people do.

I think they started around 1994 and were a really small outfit. I admit that I haven't kept up with the changes in different bags because my 1994 bag still serves when I need to use it. I usually try to get the bicycle to carry the load these days though.

-Ken

I've been researching PAC, Chrome, and Courierware bags... reading reviews, specs, etc.

Right now, I'm leaning towards the Chrome Metropolis or Kremlin...

I think I might get a mini-metro on the cheap.

I forgot about it in my initial post, but as someone else mentioned above, the Seagull Black Bag is a great deal too. As long as you're okay with having an all black bag.

Everyone I know who has a Chrome, either a mess bag or backpack, is quite happy with. If I had bought a Chrome instead of a Timbuk2 I probably could have avoided spending $400 on a Pac :D

I have a chrome bag. It makes my back sweat after 15 minutes.
I use a trunk bag for work commuting. Chrome bag for looking hipster.
Seriously though they are very useful.

Actually, I am trying to avoid dark colors. I was looking at the light blue and orange Chrome bags.

I took a close look at the Pac bags and a lot of people have been happy with them, but read a horror story or two about dealing with their customer service. And as you said, they're expensive. I can't see the investment unless I was actually a bike messenger.

I read all of that too and was a bit concerned. I shot a few emails back and forth with Pat, who started and runs Pac, before buying my bag. My impression is that if you give her 'tude she'll leave you hanging; Pac has a huge and faithful following, I don't really get the impression that she wants to bend over backwards for every whiny brat. They actually messed up the simple design I wanted on my bag: I wanted an off center narrow vertical stripe instead I got a big one in the middle so my Pac looks like a giant demented Timbuk2. I mentioned this in an email but she didn't comment on it so whatever, the bag is amazing and now I enjoy my "stealth" non-Timbuk2 mess bag

Regarding the price, I think it's worth it if you're going to be using your bag as your trunk to have something comfy and that can carry a lot of weight. I've put 40 - 50 lbs in my Pac and with the X-strap that's very manageable for distances less than 10 miles. Comfy means different things to different people (for huge capacity take a look at Chicago Wig's backpack), but Pacs are supposed to be about the best and I've never found mine lacking. I saved up for about two months to get my Pac Designs Ultimate. It was completely worth it.

I'm giving PAC a closer look... I do like the x-strap system.

I've never had a T2 or Baileys leak in the rain. If CW wants to have their flap as a seperate piece from the rest of the bag,then all they have to do is extend the linerall the way up the back to the end of the flap. Attaching the the liner to the flap,then sewing it to the back piece makes a seam all the way through.

This only work with very small bags. I don't think they make a rain jacket large enough to fit a 6' tall rider and cover a med or large size bag. The T2 is equal to the CW for half the price. The Baileys is superior for the same price.

waterproof zippers
place to hang a light or reflector straps
reflective trim
padded laptop sleeve that keeps the laptop off the ground/suspended when you put the bag down.
velcro & buckles
well padded strap, especially in large size bags that can take 30 lbs of junk
y strap that can connect to either side
organizational pockets in addition to large main compartment
nice if you can access a side pocket while the bag is in place

I have two patagonia ones
their first critical mass bag from about 01 - probably have 10 thousand commutes with it.
just got their smaller version (3rd gen) which I like a lot too.

lifetime warranty and quality construction. love their gear.
www.patagonia.com

All that you say may be true. That said, I always try to support the small shops that are American
in nature...no off shore crap please! Courierware IS an all American shop that sells quality goods
that are second to none and I really resent someone implying that they are somehow 'bad"
just to forward their own agenda. Let the OP make up their own mind will ya?:notamused:

Isn't baileyworks all american? That is one of the reasons I picked them. I hope I was not mistaken.

All of the companies mentioned, with the exception of Timbuk2 (they assemble their mess bags in SF, but they're mostly still made in China and all their non-mess bags are made in China), make their bags in the US, Canada, or Europe.

My Pac has a tag inside that says "Made with Pride in Canada" :)

As long as it's made in a first world country where people aren't enslaved to supply 'Merican consumers with cheap crap, it's fine. It doesn't necessarily have to be made in the USofA.

How long does PAC usually take to get back to you via email?

A few days the first time. Faster once I got in a tit-for-tat with Pat with different questions. As I said, I don't think Pac is hugely customer service orientated in our modern sense of giant companies that will bend over backwards and take a loss to not sully their name. Think of them more as the grouchy skilled craftspeople of the mess bag world: they take a massive amount of pride in making what most consider to be the best messenger bag on the planet.

Also: if you get any kind of design on the flap, even a simple one, do let them know early. My mistake was coming up with a design at the last minute when ordering the bag from Pat.

My bag took about a month and a half to deliver after ordering and the ship date got pushed back twice, if I remember correctly.

Pac is three full time people - Pat, her husband and one seamstress - plus one part time person. They ship about 200 - 300 bags a month. Getting one requires patience.

They said they had some bags in stock on their site, but didn't say what they were. I dropped them a line asking what they had in stock. I'm really not too picky as long as the thing is a lighter color and not pink. It can look like whatever as long as it's comfortable and functional.

I think when I ordered they had like two Ultimates in stock, neither of which had the U-lock loop.

Here's what I'd recommend getting as add ons:

U-lock loop
X-strap
Waist-belt

I don't currently have the waist belt but will be adding it in the near future (my bag came with the loop for the belt, not sure why).

If I decide to go with PAC, I'll definitely go with the X-strap. But the bag I'm looking at is the Deluxe which doesn't have the waist belt as an option. I don't use a U-lock either... got rid of that damned heavy obnoxious thing a long time ago.

BTW, the Timbuk2 Laptop Messenger Bag I got on ebay arrived today. Seems solid, although it's not made in the US like I had hoped. It was an older model so I thought it might be. Still, it should make for nice lightweight rides.

The Deluxe is only a bit smaller than the Ultimate, as I recall, so you'll have oodles of space. I've never lacked for space in my Ultimate although I've overstuffed it a few times.

Living in a city I consider a U-lock almost essential. But to each their own.

It is nice to have a smaller bag, so the Timbuk2 will come in handy when you're not wanting to carry much.