njkayaker

Overall, the mpg numbers for the Prius and the Jetta TDI are close. (Note that the current Jetta gets a few mpg less than the prior model.) The Prius would easily beat the TDI in stop-and-go driving.

Keep in mind that diesel has about 10% more energy per gallon than gasoline does (it's also 15% more expensive).

If you do mostly highway driving, the TDIs do give the Prius a good run for the money (the 2009 TDI will be even better).

I don't think most of the drivers in those "head to head" tests are driving any of the cars "properly" for fuel economy.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm

2006 Prius

Based on 119 vehicles.

Ave 47.7

Lo 37

Hi 60


2006 Jetta TDI automatic

Based on 55 vehicles

Ave 41.1

Lo 32

Hi 57


2006 Jetta TDI manual

Based on 55 vehicles

Ave 42.1

Lo 35

Hi 54

The 1979 diesel Rabbit was "only" rated 40 mpg city/50 mpg highway EPA for a much lighter (and smaller) car (note that the current EPA test is produces lower mpg numbers). Also, the emissions of this old diesel engine were terrible.

The new diesel engines have much more critical fuel requirements. "Veggie" (WVO) is probably not a good idea for these. (Since the amount of WVO that is available is miniscule compared to the vast number of cars, it's environmental impact is insignificant.) WVO works pretty well for the few people who can get it in simpler diesel engines (like 1980s Benzes).

The Lupo does well but it's also a bit smaller than a Prius. That "70 mpg" number isn't necessarily equivalent to what the EPA numbers for this car would be (my guess is that the EPA numbers would be a bit less).

Emissions. One would think that cyclists would be concerned with air quality.

njkayaker

Probably not.

https://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...907190,00.html

Datsun 1200 (71.5-cu.-in. engine, manual transmission), 28.7 m.p.g., the best performance of any auto tested.

Volkswagen Sedan (96.6-cu.-in. engine, manual transmission), 23.6 m.p.g.

Chevrolet Vega (140-cu.-in. engine, manual transmission), 21.5 m.p.g.

Ford Pinto (98-cu.-in. engine, manual transmission), 21.4 m.p.g.

Toyota Corolla (97-cu.-in. engine, manual transmission), 20.8 m.p.g.

njkayaker

The gas VWs aren't very gas efficient (they aren't much different than any non-hybrid gasoline engine). (Note that the gasoline VWs are not being marketed as "fuel efficient".)

The 2006 Jetta TDI is rated at 39 mpg highway under the current EPA standards (it was rated at 42 mpg under the old EPA standard). My not-that-special lifetime average (36,000 miles) is 47 mpg (I do mostly highway driving with little traffic). My last fill-up yielded a average of 55 mpg for over 400 miles. (People have been getting 45 mpg in VW diesels for many, many years. Hybrids are newcomers to the game!)

It looks like the 2009 Jetta will be even more efficient. It should give the Prius a run for the money for highway driving. The Prius would easily beat any non-hybrid in stop-and-go driving.

Keep in mind that the EPA highway test is not like what people think of as highway driving. If you don't drive fast, it should not be that hard (in any car) to beat the EPA highway number on long trips.

The TDIs and the Priuses (and others) are good tools for high mpg but they have to be used properly.

Gonzlobo

Jettas are sexy, Priuses are definitely not.

anthegreat1

haha I was referring to the real Rabbits made between 1975 and 1984.

anthegreat1

I like fun cars, their is absolutely nothing fun about a Prius . . . . .and don't say the MPG is fun.

My GTI gets about 34 MPG if I take it easy, thats good enough for me since I haven't driven it in almost a month.

ratell

Sneaking up on cyclists isn't fun?

anthegreat1

my GTI has headers and performance exhaust. I can't sneak up on anyone. lol

tomg

several points:

-my wife drives 2005 prius, gets 55 -60 mpg (gasoline). it is spacious, comfortable for her (who is unable to bicycle due to knee injury issues).

-i drive a 1993 honda civic cx (hatchback), when i drive. it has a 1.5 liter, 70hp, 4 cylander, 5 speed -39 to 45 mpg (gasoline). i often get people asking if i want to sell it.

-there are many simularities between the honda and prius, i favor the honda for simplicity.

-finally, the honda Insight needs to be mentioned here. the engine is same as cx (maybe v-tech) but had electric assist as well (d/c 2006) at 60 to 80 mpg gas.

these car styles are some of the shapes of the future. manufactures need to work on their method of advertisement, but the message is clear, Change is going on Now!

i look forward to removal of escalades, hummers (1-2-3), suburbans, etc, even f150 (i also have a 1987dodge ram 50 ((mitsubishe mity-max)) 2.7 liter 4 cylander 5 speed that halls what i need, 27 mpg gas). i think i put about 200 miles on the truck last year, good for kayak transport!

change is good!!

tomg

Az B

My motorcycle runs the 1/4 mile in 10 seconds @138mph and gets 50+ mpg. Talk about fun! You can have your cake and eat it too.

Az

Az B

The new breed of German diesels have urea injection and particulate filters. This allows them to be as clean as the cleanest gasoline motors. German emissions standards are tougher than ours and the diesels are very popular over there.

Az

tomg

talk about "zoom-zoom" :-) !

tballx

The enemy of the perfect is not the good. I've never been hooked, pinned or forced over by a Prius. Big trucks, SUVs and ****ty Camaros? Yeah you bet.

ratell

This isn't entirely true. Germany's diesel standards are worse than the US. In fact the new particulate filters will allow the Jetta TDI it to be sold in all 50 states. The TDI hasn't been available in 5 states that have tighter emissions standards. The new engines with the particulate filters will be bin 5 (which is considered average for a Tier II) the Prius is Bin 3. Bin 1 would be a zero emissions vehicle. Of course you can use biodiesel which solves most of the emissions problems.

From wikipedia:
In North America, the diesel TDI engine was not offered in 5 U.S. states when the Mark 5 Jetta was introduced, due to the tight emission standards promulgated by the California Air Resources Board. The four other states involved opted to adopt the more stringent California standards. Where it was available, it fell into the least-restrictive emission category. That category was removed in 2007, prompting the diesel Jetta to be unavailable in that market for about a year until the introduction of a new common rail diesel engine, which is scheduled to appear in 2008.[93] This engine will use advanced features such as a diesel particulate filter to reduce NOx and particulate emissions in order to qualify as a Tier II Bin 5 vehicle (equivalent to California's LEV II rating), therefore allowing it to be sold in all 50 U.S. states. AdBlue (urea injection) will not be used initially, reducing maintenance requirements.

BikeManDan

People who own Priuses statistically drive MORE. People who did this study attributed it to the better mileage it got, people felt like they could use the car more often because it cost less.

cerewa

Almost everyone I know claims they hate fads.

I think hating fads is a fad.

Cyclist0383

We have them in Europe, and they go under the Golf brand. There are also two models smaller than the Golf, the Polo and the Lupo. They get excellent fuel economy with fantastic pickup; they aren't like the diesels of the 1970s.

FWIW, I averaged 4.2l/100km (about 55mpg) highway driving with four adults and their baggage in my 1996 Golf, driving from Riga to Nida, in Lithuania. I averaged about 110kph (68mph).

njkayaker

The 2009 VW Jetta TDI doesn't use urea injection.

This is incorrect. (The newest diesels are still very much improved.) A big advantage of hybrids is the reduction in emissions.

https://greenercars.org/highlights_greenest.htm

Concidering that VW had to stop selling the TDI in 2008 (because it could not meet the new EPA standard) completely contradicts this statement. Also note that the 2006 TDIs were not legal for sale in CA, NY, and VT (I think the third state was VT).

Diesels are popular in Europe in part because diesel fuel has less tax on it. It appears that the tax situation might change.

Let's see some real numbers that back this statement up. Also, this behavior (if it exists) would not be restricted to Prius owners.

--------------------------------

Wow. Some one who actually did some research!!