Maybe. It's true that I've added a lot. But had I gone the other way, would I have learned how to work on my bike so well? Would I have learned how to choose each component for my needs? Maybe, maybe not. But when all is said and done, I know every bolt, bearing, cable, noise and vibration on that bike, because of all the time I spent on it. That's something you can't buy in any store.

Food for thought.
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I feel the same way about the low end lbs bike I bought off CL for $100. Heck, I'm thinking about getting a new (to me) headset for it at some point just so that I can experience swapping out/servicing that as well. When all that's original are the frame, fork and bolts for bottle holders, it'll still be a heavy old bike, but it'll be a heavy old bike that I know every part is correctly installed and I'll know how to service each and every part on it. Plus, it'll all be parts I've chosen specific too me.

You can take apart LBS bikes if you choose to. If you don't choose to because it wasn't necessary, there's some value to that too.

Sure Andy K (and numerous other posters) can and do just that. Price and proper provenance of the bicycle are the Key to entry to his Magic Kingdom of Awesome Cycling™

I didn't get mine at Walmart, but rather Target, in the store. It's a Schwinn Tourist, with Altus drivetrain, and STI shifters. Same drivetrain on a Giant Cypress a friend of mine bought from and LBS, except he's got grip-shifts.

Mine was $260. $330 with water bottle, cage, bell, light set (El Cheapo battery blinkies), and lock. His was $550, and $610 +/- $20 for rack, trunk bag and no water bottle or cage.

Main reason I was sold on this one: It had the same components as a LBS machine did. And, about 6 or 7 years ago, Trek was using the same thing on their bikes.

There's something to be said for buying a $700 bike, and being scared to tinker with it, lest you break something and add in an easy $200 repair; vs buying a $150 bike and not being scared to tinker, because you'd only be out $150for the bike. The replacement cost alone would be less.

WOW nice bike go ahead and buy and don't forget about the litghting for night time rideing/ commuting
and also make sure it's fit for you any good bike shop and help you fit the bike to you're hight. ENJOY

I have no set criteria for price. I've got an '89 Rockhopper that I bought for $120, and I bought my daughter a '93 Rockhopper for $50. Hers needed a few components replaced, for which I spent about $30 more. Mine was in perfect working order. Right now either of them is better than any bike I've seen in a department store.

There's also something to be said for learning to work on a bike that doesn't have a bunch of non-standard components that aren't compatible with readily available replacements.

What does your Magic Kingdom of Awesome Cycling look like ?

Mine is full of old bicycles that I have rebuilt and restored... the last new bicycle I purchased was in 1983 and I find great value in these older bicycles but not everyone has the same skills and experience as I do when it comes to making things work.

So for them, I encourage them to get a decent quality bicycle and quality does not have to equal expensive but do tell people to steer away from the bottom end crap that is sold at the x-marts of the world that now seem to be carrying better quality bicycles at rather decent prices.

The difference between a BSO and a decent bicycle at x-mart might be less than $100.00 and if people choose to buy there they need to understand that there will be little to no experienced support and the bike will need some setting up...if they want a little more then they should go and see what the local bicycle shop has, which is a place where the primary business is bicycles.

Besides this, there are many hundreds of nice used bicycles out there but again, it is hard for someone with limited skills to be able to determine if what they are buying is a good deal so this can make things hard.

The bike I was riding today is 60 years old, it was a dumpster find and has been serving me well for nearly five years and the wheels underneath it have seen more than 10,000 trouble free miles since I got them and they too were reclaimed.

I appreciate well made bicycles a great deal as well made bicycles is what I do and the only bike shop I work at is my own... I do not sell new bicycles or even many old ones as it is a repair shop so in this, I have nothing to gain by endorsing one model or another.

I don't service many low end bicycles as even though my rates are more than competitive and what some would say downright cheap, this amount usually exceeds what anyone that paid 99.99 for a bike wants to spend on a repair as they can just go buy another disposable bicycle instead.

This disposable aspect is part of what is wrong with an x-mart bike, the way they are made is what is wrong with them, where they are made is problematic because of social, environmental, and economic concerns.

The Chinese were recently slapped with a tariff of nearly 50% on bicycles they were selling in Europe as it was discovered that they were dumping them below cost to make it impossible for domestic manufacturers to compete. I do not like this kind of provenance in the things that I buy regardless of what it is.

There are many department store bikes that have standard components. The one I purchased is such an example. The Denali that one poster mentioned has standard parts as well.

Yes, some bikes at department stores have "non-standard" components. By and large, they all have standard components, though.

Brakes? Check. You'd replace the whole part anyways.
Drivetrain? Check. Again, generally, you don't fix those, you replace the parts.
Bottom bracket? Maybe. YMMV
Handlebars? Most likely. One-offs are more expensive than a current production run that's rebranded.
Cranks? Most likely. YMMV.
Wheels? Probably not, but you might luck out.
Tires? Who cares, just get a new tire that fits the rim. Same with tubes.
Shifters? Most likely. They're pretty much all Shimano, with a few SRAM's on there. Low end of course, but generally Shimanos are all interchangeable. And you don't usually fix shifters, you usually replace them.

Did I miss anything?

That Denali is precisely the bike I had in mind. It's got drop bars with twist shifters, which require a non-standard handlebar. The rear derailleur uses a claw mount. The brake mounting system is dated at best. The rear dropout spacing doesn't follow the road standard.

None of these things is insurmountable, but the things you "learn" with a bike like this aren't necessarily the things you'd need to know with another bike.

For some cyclists, that would work if their budget was low, and their commute rigors were lightweight. Usually if one has very rigorous commute demands, they would eventually upgrade to a better, more durable bike/components, and shun the disposable bike mentality.

I'm not sure what problem you have with the Denali's derailleur system, my replacement road derailleur bolted right up to the bike with no issues or extra parts required and has been working that way for several hundred miles now.
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what's the rear dropout spacing? do they use 29-er wheels?

When you say it "bolted right up" did it bolt up like this?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3568/...2dc1661f54.jpg

or like this?

http://static.flickr.com/95/251508706_b567b249aa.jpg

I'm not 100% clear about this. One review I read said that it had 135mm spacing but that it had a 130mm rear wheel in there. Other reports seem to indicate that it is 130mm. Maybe there's just a wide variance in production.

If you replace the shifters with brifters, no need to replace the handlebars. The only thing "non-standard" about the handlebars is that the two halves are assembled after the shifters are installed.

And, the rest of your complaints are "system is dated", well guess what? So is a bike you buy used. Even an LBS bike.

Exactly. None of it is insurmountable, and chances are, you wont run into an issue with them. By the time you do, the system is being placed.

I usually deal with cyclists and riders that have fairly rigorous demands and consider daily commuting to be a fairly intensive activity for both the rider and the bicycle.

At the other end I also deal with people on limited budgets (usually through our co-op) and for about the same amount as one would spend at x-mart we can people on much better bicycles and really tweak them out to match the needs of the rider. If the commute i going to be short and flat you do not need 27 speeds and uber low gearing so for many a single speed or older 3 speed (we cannot keep these in stock) provide excellent options.

We usually sell nice three speeds in fully tuned and nice condition for around $150.00 and one of the objectives of our co-op is sustainability so disposable bicycles are not something we like.

We do not see many of the bicycles we sell coming back for anything except regular maintainence as when we send them out they are 100%... and we also teach people how to maintain their bicycles and offer classes and workshops for everything from basic skill to more advanced classes like wheel building.

Like that

hmmm, I'd thought derailleurs with claws were cheaper than the extra metal for a non-replaceable derailleur hanger. guess not, or walmart would have gone that way.

How many cyclists that you've interacted with have went the big box route before coming to your co-op?

The best thing about a co-op is that it can pick and choose the best parts off of better quality bikes and make a really durable bike or just being able refine a bike that was mediocre to begin with, into a bike several levels higher for the same price or less than a new big box bike.

The co-op's main real obstacle is trying to overcome the lure of the shiny new bike look at the big box.

Interesting. The picture on the Walmart site shows the other kind.

If the Denali really has the derailleur hanger built into its aluminum frame that's a problem waiting to happen.

Yeah, like that. Or to show it exactly:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...man/IMG114.jpg

Like that.
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