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I keep hearing about these goathead things and I finally couldn't stand it any longer and had to do a google search.
What the HELL, MAN!!?!?!?! :eek: http://flickr.com/photos/41938778@N00/2373436684 http://www.klickitat-trail.org/images/goathead.jpg |
I had used both glue and no-glue patches and IMO I like the glue patches better because they're about $1.50 at k-mart for 12 patches.
The key here is to yet the glue sit for a while, than apply the patch. A easy way to tell if the glue is ready is when the glue starts to go from glossy, to matte. You can blow on the glue to speed this process up. It usually takes me 3-5 minutes, depending on how hard it is to find the hole. |
I've never had a pre-glued one last very long. IMHO they're to get you home if you have more than one flat in a day. I'm probably applying them wrong, other people seem to be able to get them to work. But I like glued patches, so I'm sticking with them.
The REAL patches never fail if properly done. In fact if you wanted to try to get the patch off, you'd destroy the tube in the process. The glue should pretty much weld the patch to the tube. The fact that I can peel a glued patch off of the tire at any time makes me nervous of them. You need to let the glue get pretty dry,but still a bit tacky, before you apply. I also press them together under some weight after that for a half hour or so (I patch when I get home if at all possible). |
Here is what Sheldon Brown's Website says about preglued patches (www.sheldonbrown.com/flats.html):
"Glueless (peel & stick) patches are avaialble[sic], and they are slightly more convenient than conventional patches. Unfortunately, they don't have a very good reliability record, and I can't recommend them--you're much better off with a standard patch kit." I generally agree with Sheldon...but have never used glueless patches. I have read that they are designed to just get you home and are not permanent. But go with whatever works for you! Doug |
Originally Posted by datlas
(Post 7377737)
Here is what Sheldon Brown's Website says about preglued patches (www.sheldonbrown.com/flats.html):
"Glueless (peel & stick) patches are avaialble[sic], and they are slightly more convenient than conventional patches. Unfortunately, they don't have a very good reliability record, and I can't recommend them--you're much better off with a standard patch kit." I generally agree with Sheldon...but have never used glueless patches. I have read that they are designed to just get you home and are not permanent. But go with whatever works for you! Doug |
That Sheldon Brown article is an old article that was written when glueless patches first came onto the scene and that article was never changed after the glueless patch companies came out with a better adhesive. If you recall, even the glueless patch companies back when they first came out said that they were temp patches only, they themselves no longer say that.
I personally don't like the cheap K-Mart or Wallyworld patches only because they are thicker then Rema's. I don't have anything against glue patches, they work great and have for years; but after I tried the glueless patches and never having a failure I was sold. Also someone mentioned Slime tubes. I found that slime tubes on road bikes don't work because they won't seal above 60-65psi, but they work pretty good on mtb tires if you don't mind the green goo getting inside your rim. Also I use to live in Goathead City...I use to live in the Palmdale, Lancaster area as well as Bakersfield all of which are in California and I NEVER had a goathead penetrate a Armadillo road tire not alone a mtb tire! And all I had for a tube was a ultralight racing tube and NO tire liner. Before I went with the Armadillo I had huge problems with those buggers, even going through kevlar tires with Mr Tuffys and Slime tube (that's how I found out Slime tube was useless). |
Originally Posted by froze
(Post 7374997)
I'm old enough to remember that as a kid I use to had to vulcanize patches on tubes by lighting it on fire!! I also remember the old guys saying that glue on patches don't work and not to use them! Those old guys remind me of some of you today! I haven't had much luck with glueless patches, but I've only used them on the side of the road, and i've not had much luck with any patch on the side of the road. |
The key is to sand the area with the hole until you cut through the outer skin. When the area to be glued looks "flat black" then it's done right. If you just scuff up the area without cutting through to the underlying rubber it won't work. It really is obvious once you see it happen but it takes a bit of work to get it there.
Apply glue, wait until it's dull and you can't smell any noticable solvent and then patch. |
Originally Posted by dscheidt
(Post 7378447)
Well, the heat type patches are truly permanent. The heat vulcanizes the patch to the tube. Adhesive patches, whether pre-glued ("glueless") or traditional glue on, rely on the adhesive to hold the patch in place. When they were first introduced, they had a pretty high failure rate. They were improved pretty quickly, though. In a car or truck tire, the tire is heated enough to cause the patch to vulcanize to the tire. That doesn't happen in a bike tire (good thing, or your tube would vulcanize itself to the tire, which does happen in tube type tires on cars sometimes.), so if you attack the patch's glue with the right solvent, you can undo it, much later.
I haven't had much luck with glueless patches, but I've only used them on the side of the road, and i've not had much luck with any patch on the side of the road. Second off you patching skills are telling if you haven't had success patching on the side of the road. For the rest of you go ahead and use the the glue on patches and take the extra 5 to 6 minutes more then I, I'll just finish my patch job faster and be that much further down the road...but at my age you all probably catch up with me anyways!!!!:( |
Originally Posted by CliftonGK1
(Post 7365310)
Park Tools GP-2 Super Patch kit
Self adhesive patches, comes with sanding square, $3.00 (approx.) Works 100% of the time, in my experiences. I've only needed to patch 1 tube for myself, and the rest have been karma boosters. For $3.00 on 6 patches, it's not going to break the bank giving them away to other riders who need a patch. |
I gotta say that among a group of commuters I was cavorting with one day, we all agreed that glueless patches have not held up well. But after reading this thread, I am ready to give them one more try...
scuff the tube until its "flat black"? Ok, that is a nuance I haven't heard. I will post my results. |
Originally Posted by Szczuldo
(Post 7379833)
it's not going to break the bank, but it won't hold the 110 pounds of pressure either, especially over a bump.
... The only failures have been on my MTB that I mentioned in an earlier post. Go figure. |
Call me "Mr. Overkill."
I carry two tubes, one adhesive patch kit, a co2 pump and a frame pump, and of course a tire lever (one of those really good yellow ones plus the one on my multi-tool). The two tubes and the patch kit are in case God decides to smite me with flats on my way to work. The co2 is in case I get a flat and it's real hot or I'm in a hurry. The frame pump is also to challenge God's wrath and because I'm cheap and co2 cartridges are 3 bucks a pop. I patch tubes, but in the safety and security of my own garage - usually in batches when I have multiple punctured tubes. If I were independently wealthy, didn't give a rat's ass about the environment and lived next to a 24hr bike shop, I would not patch tubes. I've never had a problem with patches. Some of my tubes with 4 or 5 patches hold air better than some of my tubes with no patches at all. One thing I always do is fight the temptation to test whether a patched tube holds air by inflating it. Before I inflate a patched tube, I put it in a tire on a rim. Then I inflate it to max psi and check it the next day. If it is still at or near max psi, then the tube is as good as any brand new tube out of the box. I prefer to have my patched tubes on my bike and my new, unpatched tubes in my bag. |
Originally Posted by MMACH 5
(Post 7380395)
I pump my front tire to 120 and the rear to 110. On my road bike, the glueless patches have NEVER failed. Considering that I went for almost two years without a flat, the patches on my tubes have been there for quite a while. My 50-mile RT commute is not what I think anyone would call "bump free."
Go figure. And for someone to say they won't hold past 110 is ignorance and tells me you never used them!! considering the fact that if they do hold up to 110 then anything beyond that would hold because the pressure of the tube against the tire alone would keep them from coming undone; and hitting a "bump" would cause no additional problems. Heck I ridden my road bike with glueless patches on dirt roads with wind ridges, across rough railroad tracks, jumping curbs, potholes, you name it, and never had a problem with a glueless patch not being able to take a "bump"; thats just more ignorance. |
How long do the Park glueless patches last in the bike bag? I carry a tube and the Park patches. But I've never had more than one puncture on a ride, so the patches are still untried after two years.
Patching the tube at home with glue patches, I would typically find the little tube of glue dried up. So now I have a jar of Elmer's Rubber Cement, 4 fl oz. It's worked well, so far. |
How do glueless patches last when they're NOT installed in a tire? Typically I'll patch when I get home, then roll the tube up and stuff it in my repair bag. I've had glueless patches get ripped off while bouncing around in the bag for the year I usually go between flats. I guess I could be careful to fold the tube so that the patch was protected by the rest of the tube, but that could get tricky by the time there are 3 or 4 patches on the tube.
The only way to get a glue patch off is to rip the tube. Again, maybe I'm doing something wrong. But I prefer to use the patches that are so good that they simply can not be removed once properly applied; less to worry about. |
Originally Posted by rm -rf
(Post 7381104)
How long do the Park glueless patches last in the bike bag? I carry a tube and the Park patches. But I've never had more than one puncture on a ride, so the patches are still untried after two years.
Patching the tube at home with glue patches, I would typically find the little tube of glue dried up. So now I have a jar of Elmer's Rubber Cement, 4 fl oz. It's worked well, so far. Most of you would probably go through 6 patches before a year was up anyways. |
Originally Posted by ItsJustMe
(Post 7384082)
How do glueless patches last when they're NOT installed in a tire? Typically I'll patch when I get home, then roll the tube up and stuff it in my repair bag. I've had glueless patches get ripped off while bouncing around in the bag for the year I usually go between flats. I guess I could be careful to fold the tube so that the patch was protected by the rest of the tube, but that could get tricky by the time there are 3 or 4 patches on the tube.
The only way to get a glue patch off is to rip the tube. Again, maybe I'm doing something wrong. But I prefer to use the patches that are so good that they simply can not be removed once properly applied; less to worry about. Obviously if it's raining out then fixing a flat in wet conditions is impossible, then I go to the spare tube. When I carry a spare tube it's either brand new in the box or I have tightly rolled the tube to get all the air out of the tube and placed in the box. If the tube is patched and in the box then I have yet to have a patch come off. Like I mentioned in a earlier post, I tried to remove a glueless patch this last weekend and I ripped the tube instead. The patch had been on the tube for about 2 years though. If you lightly sand the tube then wipe with an alcohol wipe pad the glueless patch will stick like glue...pardon the pun. |
Originally Posted by froze
(Post 7396268)
I understand you patch when you get home, but I patch first before going to the spare tube mostly because I can patch as fast as I can change a tube. How do I do that you scream...by simply finding where the leak is on the tire (usually easy) then remove about 1/2 of the bead on one side with the leak in the center; then pull down about 1/4th of the tube, again with the leak in the middle; check the inside and outside of the tire for the offending object; then repair the tube and put it all back together. This method works easy with folding tires but stiff beaded tires like Armadillos it doesn't work at all but then again with an Armadillo the chances for a flat is slim to none.
Obviously if it's raining out then fixing a flat in wet conditions is impossible, then I go to the spare tube. I use Patched Tubes up to Nine Patches. When I carry a spare tube it's either brand new in the box or I have tightly rolled the tube to get all the air out of the tube and placed in the box. If the tube is patched and in the box then I have yet to have a patch come off. Like I mentioned in a earlier post, I tried to remove a glueless patch this last weekend and I ripped the tube instead. The patch had been on the tube for about 2 years though. If you lightly sand the tube then wipe with an alcohol wipe pad the glueless patch will stick like glue...pardon the pun. Good Luck. |
Originally Posted by 10 Wheels
(Post 7396283)
I carry Three Spare Tubes. Finding the Leak on the Road is most difficult.
Good Luck. |
Well I just jinxed myself, yesterday I gotten a flat on my 'main' tube and without thinking much about it I change to my spare tube. Murphy was having a field day, because later on that day I came to a bicycle with another completely flat tire. Of course, I cant patch it due to the hole being more of a cut then a hole.
So a bus ride later I came home and examine my 'main' tube and guess were the leak was? it was Coming from the glueless patch, SOB! I lost a perfectly good tube because of that glueless patch... |
Originally Posted by gascostalot
(Post 7398437)
. So a bus ride later I came home and examine my 'main' tube and guess were the leak was? it was Coming from the glueless patch, SOB! I lost a perfectly good tube because of that glueless patch...
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