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Are IGH a good idea?

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Are IGH a good idea?

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Old 02-13-18, 01:08 PM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by Banzai View Post
I think we've been over this before, and when we did, I wasn't the only one to point out your utter lack of understanding regarding the Alfine, (or most others) and why you don't need a purpose built frame. Or why amongst the dozens of limitations the Shimano lawyers put on the Alfine in the fine print, not a single one of them is "Alfine will only function properly on a frame specifically engineered to run the Alfine." It's why Shimano, a company that will state marginal cross-compatibility with warnings of bloody death for groups that are highly cross-compatible, makes a variety of fitments to allow the Alfine to fit darn near any frame.

The only specification is that the spacing needs to be 135mm in back.
Sure, we can go down that road again if you want. I'd still prefer an apology, but that will never happen here.

I stand behind my arguments as before and if you choose to ignore them, it's at your own peril.
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Old 02-13-18, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Banzai View Post
I think we've been over this before, and when we did, I wasn't the only one to point out your utter lack of understanding regarding the Alfine, (or most others) and why you don't need a purpose built frame. Or why amongst the dozens of limitations the Shimano lawyers put on the Alfine in the fine print, not a single one of them is "Alfine will only function properly on a frame specifically engineered to run the Alfine." It's why Shimano, a company that will state marginal cross-compatibility with warnings of bloody death for groups that are highly cross-compatible, makes a variety of fitments to allow the Alfine to fit darn near any frame.

The only specification is that the spacing needs to be 135mm in back.
Agree, but in another post you suggested Rohloffs require a special frame. How so?
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Old 02-13-18, 02:27 PM
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they don't, just need a 135 rear spread..

Rohloff Retrofit (5th chapter) PG 65 of my manual.. long torque arm + the chain tensioner .. Not featured but available...

lets the hub fit frames with wide enough rear dropouts.. even vertical dropout.

External shift box is housed cables all the way to the grip shifter..





..

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Old 02-13-18, 03:29 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by CreakingCrank View Post
Agree, but in another post you suggested Rohloffs require a special frame. How so?
Rohloff speedhub has a torque arm that mounts to a plate on the chainstay. If Bob says it can be retrofitted to an existing frame, I defer to him.
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Old 02-13-18, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Banzai View Post
Rohloff speedhub has a torque arm that mounts to a plate on the chainstay. If Bob says it can be retrofitted to an existing frame, I defer to him.
Thanks. I have a disk brake version of the hub but know little about the others, so was hoping to learn something.
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Old 02-13-18, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Banzai View Post
Rohloff speedhub has a torque arm that mounts to a plate on the chainstay. If Bob says it can be retrofitted to an existing frame, I defer to him.

At its most basic, a strap like a coaster brake has works,

but being German they have a tool free push button released part you use small hose clamps around the chainstay , to secure it..

Cycle Monkey in Richmond Cal is also the USA wholesale and Service center for Rohloff DE.




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Old 02-14-18, 02:00 AM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
I wonder if any of the participants from '08 and '10 are still around to update with their experiences with internal gear hubs?

I think they are a great idea, but the drawbacks of slightly less efficiency and more weight, and the compromise of fewer gears, has always put me off from seriously considering it.
The thing I don't like about IGH is the bother it takes to remove and put back a wheel. I don't get flats very often, but when I do, it's on a rainy night.

Recently worked on some Gazelle (German "Dutch" bike ). IGH, Shimano Roller brakes, enclosed chain (weather and trouser protection). Those things are HEAVY. Especially the steel framed one. They are highly practical for commuting: front and rear basket mounts, center stand (so the bike stays upright), mechanism for increased friction on the steerer, so the front wheel stays put when the bike is parked (it doesn't lock it up, so if you forget to loosen it before riding, you won't fall, just feel the friction). Parts that are not prone to damage when parked in a pile/crowded bike parking (like bicycle brake disc and RDs are). Brakes that don't care if it's rain, snow, or sun - just (let the mechanic) lube them once a year.

Those bikes are not good for hills, the drum brakes, IGH and weight all work against that, but for Amsterdam, Novi Sad etc - perfect. However, if there was any reason to remove a wheel and change a tube (can be patched without the wheel removal, but I prefer to just swap a tube when on the road) - it's a big bother IMO and experience.

They still work for most users - usually Schwalbe Marathon tyre equipped from the factory.
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Old 02-14-18, 08:37 AM
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Another + for Rohloff the CC axle is hollow QR, the External shifter is held on with a thumbwheel , captive bolt.

they're 10 reduction gears, only 3 overdrive gears..

Gazelle is in Dieren NL...
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Old 02-14-18, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Slaninar View Post
The thing I don't like about IGH is the bother it takes to remove and put back a wheel. I don't get flats very often, but when I do, it's on a rainy night.
Maybe that's the case with the bike you worked on (especially with a chain protector), but that's not typical of IGH's in general. On a Rohloff with an external mesh, for example, its a thumb screw to remove the shifting mechanism, a quick release to remove the wheel (no tools, 10 seconds). Its as quick and easy as my front wheel. On my Alfine bike, its equally easy except the shifter detachment is less slick.

I see you have the same luck I have getting flats at opportune times.
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Old 02-14-18, 08:08 PM
  #85  
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I bought a BF pakiT last summer with an RF-4 & belt drive - so far, so good! I like it. The shifts are consistent and there's no low-hanging derailleur or chain to drag in the mud and dust.
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Old 02-14-18, 09:05 PM
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There are a ton of IGH bikes on the market in the USA, mostly on cruisers and town bikes where they make perfect sense. But they do have a price premium over single speeds and 7-speed Tourney
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Old 02-15-18, 01:35 AM
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Originally Posted by CreakingCrank View Post
Maybe that's the case with the bike you worked on (especially with a chain protector), but that's not typical of IGH's in general. On a Rohloff with an external mesh, for example, its a thumb screw to remove the shifting mechanism, a quick release to remove the wheel (no tools, 10 seconds). Its as quick and easy as my front wheel. On my Alfine bike, its equally easy except the shifter detachment is less slick.

I see you have the same luck I have getting flats at opportune times.
Just about every IGH bike over here (europe) has a rear fender and an integrated chain guard ... so that are quite the PITA.

Without those but it doesn't make sense to run an IGH as you're losing the set-and-forget properties of the system.
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Old 02-15-18, 01:04 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by Slaninar View Post
The thing I don't like about IGH is the bother it takes to remove and put back a wheel. I don't get flats very often, but when I do, it's on a rainy night.
Removing the wheel on my Nexus 8 is not as easy as in a "normal" bike, but it's not that hard either. With QR it may take 10 secs to remove the wheel, another 10 to put it back; with nutted axle/shift cable what, 40 secs/1 min? Not a big deal IMO (unless you're rushing to get in time to work ).
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Old 02-15-18, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
Just about every IGH bike over here (europe) has a rear fender and an integrated chain guard ... so that are quite the PITA.

Without those but it doesn't make sense to run an IGH as you're losing the set-and-forget properties of the system.
Yikes. Are there laws requiring fenders and chain guards? I know some Euro countries have light and other safety laws.

I have sliding dropouts with no fender or guard to deal with. I'm not sure a fender would be an issue though, as the wheel drops straight down out of the dropout.
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Old 02-16-18, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by CreakingCrank View Post
Yikes. Are there laws requiring fenders and chain guards? I know some Euro countries have light and other safety laws.

I have sliding dropouts with no fender or guard to deal with. I'm not sure a fender would be an issue though, as the wheel drops straight down out of the dropout.
Didn't know about the mudguard laws. I know that Germany has very strictly defined light laws - only bikes below I think 11 kg are allowed some lenience to use battery mount/dismount lights (by definition it is clear that the racing road bikes are meant for that). Still, making mudguards for an urban commuting bike makes sense: I find it very rude to spray all the people behind, especially on narrow bike roads where there's no room to overtake another bicycle with enough distance.
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Old 02-23-18, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict View Post
IGH is too expensive. That is the main problem. It'll forever be a nich thing.
Various SA hubs have been used for over a 100 years- longer than just about any other gearing system except 1x1.
Seems like a success?
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Old 03-06-18, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by martianone View Post
Various SA hubs have been used for over a 100 years- longer than just about any other gearing system except 1x1.
Seems like a success?
He didn't say they weren't successful, he said they were a niche item. Which is true.
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Old 03-06-18, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
He didn't say they weren't successful, he said they were a niche item. Which is true.
At one time were they less of a niche? I was thumbing through an old Sears catalog from the 1970s recently, and there were possibly almost as many IGH bikes listed as derailleur ones. Was the balance back then different from what we see today?
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Old 03-06-18, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by JonathanGennick View Post
At one time were they less of a niche? I was thumbing through an old Sears catalog from the 1970s recently, and there were possibly almost as many IGH bikes listed as derailleur ones. Was the balance back then different from what we see today?
Yes, 50+ years ago they were much more common than now. You used to see lots of the old 3 speeds. I've got my father in laws old 3 speed Schwinn Racer with an SA hub I cleaned up....thinking about repainting it; or at least replacing the steel rims with something rideable.
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Old 03-07-18, 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
He didn't say they weren't successful, he said they were a niche item. Which is true.
No, in Europe, IGH outsell geared bikes 3:1, in Asia that ratio even greater. Thus, IGH possibly represents 75% of all bikes sold globally per year.

Anyone who thinks they're a niche item needs to get out a little more.
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Old 03-07-18, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
No, in Europe, IGH outsell geared bikes 3:1, in Asia that ratio even greater. Thus, IGH possibly represents 75% of all bikes sold globally per year.

Anyone who thinks they're a niche item needs to get out a little more.
Fair enough. But again..if Iím not kistake. The people asking about/mentioning IGHs were in the US, where youíll see one about twice a year.
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Old 03-07-18, 06:55 AM
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IGH's are definitely a niche in the US. I'm gradually seeing a growing number of them, but the riders give the impression of being bike enthusiasts, or have been riding for a long time (for instance, people who I've seen for more than a year on the bike path). This is one of those things that could take a long time to catch on.

For me, 3 speeds is the sweet spot for a commuter, and I'm happy with my old Sturmey SA. I ride single-speed when I can. But because my bike attracts interest, most people seem genuinely surprised that you can get around on a bike with fewer than 21 gears. This is in a relatively flat town.

The US is also the only country in the world where there are adults who are beginners on bikes. Perhaps, if someone is really new to cycling, they don't know what gear range they will need, and prefer to be absolutely assured that they won't run out of gears.
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Old 03-07-18, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
Fair enough. But again..if Iím not kistake. The people asking about/mentioning IGHs were in the US, where youíll see one about twice a year.
Lame excuse.
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Old 03-07-18, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Gresp15C View Post
IGH's are definitely a niche in the US. I'm gradually seeing a growing number of them, but the riders give the impression of being bike enthusiasts, or have been riding for a long time (for instance, people who I've seen for more than a year on the bike path). This is one of those things that could take a long time to catch on.

For me, 3 speeds is the sweet spot for a commuter, and I'm happy with my old Sturmey SA. I ride single-speed when I can. But because my bike attracts interest, most people seem genuinely surprised that you can get around on a bike with fewer than 21 gears. This is in a relatively flat town.

The US is also the only country in the world where there are adults who are beginners on bikes. Perhaps, if someone is really new to cycling, they don't know what gear range they will need, and prefer to be absolutely assured that they won't run out of gears.
I agree with this. I think the US is quite ahead in some facets but quite far behind in bikes as a means of transport. They'll eventually evolves to IGH. Germany seems to be quite far ahead with e-bike based superhighways in the RheinMainValley (RMV).
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Old 03-07-18, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
Lame excuse.
Shouldnít I be playing the part of the angry american in this exchange?

Sheesh. Switch to decaff.
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