Driver is angry because you are blocking his R turn
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Driver is angry because you are blocking his R turn
Since the bike lane is always on the far right side, what do you do if you stop at an intersection stop light, but are planning on going straight, but the car behind you wants to turn right at the intersection, but you are blocking his way?
Last edited by aHappyCamper; 10-12-08 at 11:07 PM.
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As long as you're not past the stop/crosswalk line, I don't see how you'd be blocking the car's right turn. Just put your foot down to signal that you're not going to run the light. They can decide whether to go or not. Of course, once it's gone green you have the right-of-way, but you still gotta watch out.
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Whenever I'm approaching an intersection with a yellow or red light, I merge left, out of the bike lane and into the rightmost straight through lane. Right turning motorists have plenty of space to pass me on the right to make their turn. And when the light changes, I can move back over to the right again before I have delayed any motorists queued up behind me.
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I would not assume that the driver knows you are going straight because you have your foot down. I think it's safe to just assume the driver does not even see you. Either get directly in front of the driver off to one side or behind the driver. If you are next to the driver when the light turns green and get hit going straight it might be the drivers fault but do you want to get hit? I don't.
You need to be aggressive. You need to be defensive. You need to be visible.
Never assume.
You need to be aggressive. You need to be defensive. You need to be visible.
Never assume.
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My action in this situation depends on the width of the shoulder/bike lane. If there is no shoulder or it's very narrow, I'll take the lane and turning cars just wait behind me for the green. If the shoulder/bike lane is wide, I'll sometimes keep to the right to allow right-turning traffic to pass me and make the turn, but then I pull out into the lane immediately once I get the green to avoid being right-hooked. I rarely have a problem using either method, although once a driver tried to bully me out of the bike lane so he could use it (illegally) to make a right turn. He got quite angry when I refused to budge, but nothing came of it.
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Actually, at least in California, and probably in most other states that follow the Uniform Vehicle Code, it is not only legal, but actually required for drivers to merge all the way to the right, into the bike lane if there is one, when performing a right turn. This applies not only to intersections, but also to driveways.
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If there is a car stopped in the rightmost through lane, and you are stopped next to it in a wide outside lane or a bike lane, then you are probably blocking right turning cars that could otherwise pass the straight through cars on the right. In this situation, you should merge to the left into the straight through lane, instead of forcing right turning cars to queue up behind you or pass you on the left and turn right in front of you.
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A bike lane to the right of a right turn lane is a bad design and warrants a complaint to the director of public works. The bike lane should either shift to the left of the right turn lane before the intersection, or end before or where the right turn lane begins.
In this situation I would shift left out of the bike lane and into the right-most lane that proceeds in my intended direction of travel. If this lane is wide enough to share I would stay off to the right, but in the lane. If this lane is too narrow to share, I would take a more centerish position that makes it plain that there is not room for a car to pull beside me and remain completely in the lane. The heavier the traffic, the earlier this shift in road position must commence.
In this situation I would shift left out of the bike lane and into the right-most lane that proceeds in my intended direction of travel. If this lane is wide enough to share I would stay off to the right, but in the lane. If this lane is too narrow to share, I would take a more centerish position that makes it plain that there is not room for a car to pull beside me and remain completely in the lane. The heavier the traffic, the earlier this shift in road position must commence.
#9
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>Since the bike lane is always on the far right side, what do you do if you stop at an intersection stop light, but are planning on going straight, but the car behind you wants to turn right at the intersection, but you are blocking his way?
Assuming you're talking about turns where there's an arrow (or local laws allow drivers to turn through red lights)....either:
1) Look back and try and work out whether the car behind you is planning to turn (indicators/"turn signals" help), and move over one lane, so they can get through. Then get back over at the green light.
2) Get off the road entirely, wait in the gutter, then join in at the green light again.
Whatever you do, pay lots of attention to the cars around you - they don't see anything when they're stopped, it's up to you to look out for yourself and understand what they're going to do.
Steve
(attempting to picture this in a right-side-drive country...)
Assuming you're talking about turns where there's an arrow (or local laws allow drivers to turn through red lights)....either:
1) Look back and try and work out whether the car behind you is planning to turn (indicators/"turn signals" help), and move over one lane, so they can get through. Then get back over at the green light.
2) Get off the road entirely, wait in the gutter, then join in at the green light again.
Whatever you do, pay lots of attention to the cars around you - they don't see anything when they're stopped, it's up to you to look out for yourself and understand what they're going to do.
Steve
(attempting to picture this in a right-side-drive country...)
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I stop towards the middle of the right-most lane, if I'm first in the line and a car behind me wants to turn right, I'll slide sideways to make enough room for him to squeeze through and turn if he wants and give them a wave/point to indicate that I'm cool with them coming up and turning right. I try to stay to in the lane enough that people who want to go will stay behind me though, rather than passing on the right as soon as the light goes green.
I figure that way I'm still asserting that I'm in the lane and negotiating the intersection as part of traffic without ignoring the fact that, as compact as a bike is, it's simple enough to move aside for someone who doesn't need to be stopped.
I've gotten a lot of thank you's and the like for doing it too. Don't know if that would have happened if I'd just been out of the way to begin with or not, but I'd like to think the fact that I'm actively being considerate and what have you makes a positive impression on people
I figure that way I'm still asserting that I'm in the lane and negotiating the intersection as part of traffic without ignoring the fact that, as compact as a bike is, it's simple enough to move aside for someone who doesn't need to be stopped.
I've gotten a lot of thank you's and the like for doing it too. Don't know if that would have happened if I'd just been out of the way to begin with or not, but I'd like to think the fact that I'm actively being considerate and what have you makes a positive impression on people
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I'll throw a wrench in the works..But I deal with it every am..(after 7am)
Should I feel guilty for taking the bike lane when the right turn lane is "No turn on Red 7am to 7pm" ?.
Should I feel guilty for taking the bike lane when the right turn lane is "No turn on Red 7am to 7pm" ?.
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allowing right turns on reds is a bad idea anyways.
some countries and provinces don't allow it.
some countries and provinces don't allow it.
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Anything bigger than you always has the right of way, rules to live by.
Anything you can do to allow the car to turn, you should.
Anything you can do to allow the car to turn, you should.
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If I was on a scooter or motorbike, that rule wouldn't work, now would it?
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#16
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Whenever I'm approaching an intersection with a yellow or red light, I merge left, out of the bike lane and into the rightmost straight through lane. Right turning motorists have plenty of space to pass me on the right to make their turn. And when the light changes, I can move back over to the right again before I have delayed any motorists queued up behind me.
Common sense and experience tell us that this is the best course. It's not that difficult to ride in traffic and time on the bike is the best teacher.
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I look back and: iF the cars signal is blinking, and I am the front person, and only of I can move dead center to the lane a bit forward safely, I will move left a bit and let them slip through. I try not to be a jackass.
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I have one of these on the way home. I just put my foot on the curb, enjoy some water and wait until they have all made their right turns and then proceed on.
It isn't worth trying to beat them and it only delays me about a minute, but I agree...poor design the lane should be between the right turn lane and the first regular lane.
It isn't worth trying to beat them and it only delays me about a minute, but I agree...poor design the lane should be between the right turn lane and the first regular lane.
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Whenever I'm approaching an intersection with a yellow or red light, I merge left, out of the bike lane and into the rightmost straight through lane. Right turning motorists have plenty of space to pass me on the right to make their turn. And when the light changes, I can move back over to the right again before I have delayed any motorists queued up behind me.
However, after many, many instances of people sneaking slowly past me to turn right on the red, and even more irritating, people sort of pacing me into the intersection after the green, then stopping and waiting for me to get past, I now move far left and assume people behind me want to turn right. When it turns green, I get across the intersection and move back to the right at the same time, because by then usually the right turners in front have gone on their way and the guy right behind me wants to go straight.
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I only have two situations like this along my commute route. In the first instance, I'm able to move into the left lane and go through the intersection at the light change.
The second situation is when I go by Methodist Hospital on Colorado Blvd. The lanes are so narrow that I have to take the lane or get pushed into the curb so I take the right hand lane at intersections and cars behind me just have to wait.
Ernest
The second situation is when I go by Methodist Hospital on Colorado Blvd. The lanes are so narrow that I have to take the lane or get pushed into the curb so I take the right hand lane at intersections and cars behind me just have to wait.
Ernest
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whenever i'm approaching an intersection with a yellow or red light, i merge left, out of the bike lane and into the rightmost straight through lane. Right turning motorists have plenty of space to pass me on the right to make their turn. And when the light changes, i can move back over to the right again before i have delayed any motorists queued up behind me.
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What are these "bike lanes" of which you speak?
Seriously, we don't have any bike lanes in Dallas. When I come up on a red light, if the lane is wide enough, I move the left side of the lane and pull forward, as far as I can. Sometimes I still have to wave the right turning cars through.
If the lane is too narrow to allow this, I maintain the center of the lane and they simply have to wait. The last thing you want is an 18-wheeler or other large truck squeezing past you on the left and then turning right, (their rear wheels often roll over the curb and could easily take you out).
Seriously, we don't have any bike lanes in Dallas. When I come up on a red light, if the lane is wide enough, I move the left side of the lane and pull forward, as far as I can. Sometimes I still have to wave the right turning cars through.
If the lane is too narrow to allow this, I maintain the center of the lane and they simply have to wait. The last thing you want is an 18-wheeler or other large truck squeezing past you on the left and then turning right, (their rear wheels often roll over the curb and could easily take you out).
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Question: If you were in a car in the same spot, far right lane at a stop light, intending to proceed straight, and a car is behind you that wants to turn right on red, do you find some way to get out of the way even if it is unsafe?
Answer: No, and that is not expected and drivers understand that as long you are in a car.
This speaks to the crux of the issue about drivers recognizing bikes as legal vehicles. Just because we can pick up our vehicle and carry it away, does that mean we are required to by law or compelled by a social code to do so?
With that said I would try to make room and let them get by if it's safe. If it's not safe, I stay, I have the right to be there. But I do think courtesy is contagious.
Answer: No, and that is not expected and drivers understand that as long you are in a car.
This speaks to the crux of the issue about drivers recognizing bikes as legal vehicles. Just because we can pick up our vehicle and carry it away, does that mean we are required to by law or compelled by a social code to do so?
With that said I would try to make room and let them get by if it's safe. If it's not safe, I stay, I have the right to be there. But I do think courtesy is contagious.
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Another vote for moving to the left. On my commute I've got quite a few instances where the bike lane ends before the turn lane. I've never had an issue. I always had issues when trying to stay to the right or hug the curb. Even though people would have room to pass, there was always that one person who can't gauge room very well and I had some close calls. My buddy still insists on going to the curb and thinks I'm being arrogant for going left. I'm just being visible, predictable, and giving right hand turning vehicles all the room they need.
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I live in Southern California, and there are no less than 4 intersections on my 7 mile each way commute where a bike lane becomes a right-turn-only lane. I asked a motorcycle cop about this once when he pulled up next to me. According to him, I must obey all the traffic laws as if I were driving a car. If I pull into a right-turn-only lane, I MUST turn right. As a consequence, I pull into the right-most lane that still allows me to go straight, and then pull back into the bike lane by the time I leave the intersection. As I live in a state full of lifted F-350's going 65 on surface streets, pulling out of the bike lane is a harrowing experience to say the least.
-Keith
-Keith