Full cost accounting? I don't think so.

Factoring in startup all depends on what your bike is, I was(until I got hit busting my clavicle) commuting to class daily on a free beater Motobecane that my dad gave me, I had probably around $50 invested in the bike. $50 = about two tanks of gas in my Jetta, from the beginning of the semester to now I've filled up my tank once...

Not to mention the startup cost of getting a car, if we're gonna factor all that in then you should factor that in to the pro-car argument too.

Since gas prices have gone down in my area, I am not saving much commuting by bike. I still have my car, but dont use it to drive to work. I have called my insurance agent and told him my story, and I am on recreation use for my car, (I may drive on the weekend to the store).

Gas here is now $1.98 /gal... so I am only spending roughly $1 a day in gas to drive to work.

But like others have said.. its worth it for health, and its just fun. I know if I didnt have my car, I would be saving roughly $4-5 a day. That adds up.

But I understand the OP..

Well, I think I see where the OP is coming from. Insurace and Registration are a sunk cost - you don't really save money on them by commuting (unless you tell your insurance company you drive under X miles and they lower your rate). I really wonder how much $ I save. What I do gainm though, is a stronger heart, couple of lungs and the ability to blow off steam after work.

:beer:

-GG-

I'm both pleased and displeased with cheaper gas for selfish reasons. Cheaper means it costs less to fill up for the trips I need to make by car (those to work sites across town). Cheaper also means there's less incentive for people to carpool, use pubtrans, or bike, which means more cars on the road, which means a more dangerous ride.

Blimey, now I see why this thread went so far off topic. I hadn't even noticed that gas was down from $4 to $2 until now. Never thought about that.

The fall in the price of gas is temporary and it will go back up soon. Decline in oil prices is part of a general decline in demand due to the financial crisis. It will go back up when the economy begins to recover.

If gas goes back up, does that mean that my Coors Light will be more expensive?

Yeah, but it's Coors Light. If current cost is compared with actual flavor present in the beer, it is already overpriced about tenfold.

Wha wha? What about the start up costs of car ownership? Are we just assuming that a car is one of those unalienable rights along with life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? Let's also keep in mind that a bike doesn't need to cost over $1,000 and you don't need to buy a closet full of superhero costumes so you can pedal it to work. I think you'd be surprised how many "irrational" people there are out there doing just fine without a car.

Of course not; don't be disingenuous. In most parts of this country, however, and for many people, it is necessary to have access to a car in order to hold down a job. While it is true that Americans have become lazy about finding ways to have access to a car without owning one (e.g., carpooling), you can't just hand-wave away decades of office-park building, suburban construction, and other social and infrastructure changes that place many people at considerable physical distance from their jobs. If you lived 30 miles from your job, could you still commute by bicycle? How about if you had no options for public transit to help you part of the way? How about if you lived in the northern US, with a high annual snowfall, and had to commute on roads that are lined with 8-foot snowbanks from December to March? How about if you had a child or other dependent whose care you were responsible for, or other outside responsibilities, that precluded your taking 3 hours a day to commute? You can rail all you want about how we got here, and I wouldn't disagree with you, and you can say that many people who say they "can't" commute by bicycle actually could, and I wouldn't disagree with that either. But don't let that blind you to the fact that real impediments exist and that most people have to deal with infrastructure, job requirements, and other realities of life that make it difficult to impossible for them to live without a car.

Oh, god, you're one of those.

+1.

I've ditched both cars, and started renting out one of my two parking spots. win/win/win

Insurance -- you can carry less expensive insurance, for starters. Probably don't need rental coverage. You might be willing to get by with less expansive collision or comprehensive coverage. If you drive rarely enough, you can get a limited-operation policy. If your car isn't important to you, it probably isn't going to be a recent-model luxury theft-magnet or an extremely expensive to repair EgoMobile, etc....the older the cheaper...and so on. My car is over ten years old. It's still plenty nice IMHO. Drive less, get less tickets, fewer accidents...naturally lower rates there.

Maintenance -- Umm. Wear and Tear? Less wear, less tear. You do your oil changes and lubes, etc. I speak from experience here (not mine.) I had one of those famous barely-driving grandmas. (I still have her, she just doesn't drive any more. Getting old sucks.) Her 1972 Dodge Dart had 20,000 miles on it in 1992. Everything was factory, more or less. Maybe not the brake pads and air filter. You get the idea.
She bought a Toyota Camry. Once she got over hating it (and started hating the Dart) the same pattern resumed. She gave it up in 2006. It had 22,000 miles on it. It even smelled like a New Car. Never had anything but oil changes, brakes, etc.

So. There you go.

This is true, especially outside of cities. And outside of cities, gasoline usage is more efficient. Sitting in stop and go traffic in a Hummer makes the Baby Lorax cry.

What if car ownership was more of a household thing, rather than an individual thing? Do you need a fleet of cars in V-Formation, one for each adolescent, to get your youngest to the hospital? There is necessity and then there is custom. It's our customs that need to change. And a change in that to which we are accustomed is always jarring as it is by definition outside of our extant comfort zone. We can either grit our teeth and change gradually now, or we can have it forced on us even more abruptly down the road a decade or so, and with much more pain.

And cyclists need to find a way to team up with aligned interests to change this. The costs are ridiculously low compared to most public works projects. In fact "railing on" is EXACTLY "how I'd like to get there." (Rimshot.)

I will now pack up my bad light-rail puns and take a hike.

Based purely on savings in gas I have more than paid for every bike expense including start-up costs. And I started commuting on June 9th of this year. If you're not saving money, you're spending too much.

Well, it depends on how far you commute. I work about 150 miles from home. I don't do that distance every day. Before this summer, I spent half my week up in Chicago and the other half at home in Urbana. I drove up Tuesday morning and drove back Thursday night.

This summer I tried bike and train commuting... and I loved it. However, because of the train schedules, I now have to leave Monday nights and return either Thursday afternoon or Friday morning. That means that I'm away from home longer than before.

Yes, when gas is $4 per gallon, I save about $120 per month. When gas is about $2.10 per gallon, I pretty much break even (including insurance and maintenance). At least for now... Soon, CTA will increase fares for public transit in Chicago. And who knows if Amtrak will follow suit. This will, of course, affect my personal bike commute (I know that many of the folks in this forum don't use public transit as part of their commute).

While I fully expect gas prices to go back up eventually... the reality for me is that when gas is below $2 per gallon, it's cheaper to drive (even if I include maintenance and insurance). I'll keep commuting by bike until it gets too snowy and icy, but in the dead of winter, I know I'll be back in my car. My folding bike just can't handle winter riding... and I doubt I'll be getting a beater just for winter. I don't have the space for it anyway.

Sorry for rambling... LOL... The bottom line is that everybody's situation is different and you should make decisions based on your situation. Sure, there are many that could live car free for much of their life. Unfortunately, I'm not one of those people (at least not in winter).

--sam

That depends on how you ride.

If you ride REACTIVELY, you are are going to be at the mercy of insane motorists.

If you ride PROACTIVELY, the traffic is going to be at your mercy.

The key is, when there is no shoulder, you should 'take the lane'.



Personally, I 'take the lane' all the time because, I don't want some passing me closer, than the distance of my arm stretched out to the side.

Exactly, it all depends on your situation.

My girlfiend and I have been living together for 3 years. She has a car and I had a car. Two cars is, in my opinion, wasteful. So I sold mine. I bought a cheap commuter and save a huge amount and still have a car to use for random things like grocery shopping (though with panniers and what not that is no a problem I realize).

So yeah, it just depends. I'm pretty sure I'll never buy a car again if I can help it, though. Even if I am single. The health benefits of biking a lone are great.

Speaking of this cheaper gas, I was out today and saw $1.88/gal.. it hasn't been that low in forever. I thought, screw that...I'll ride my bike.

I don't expect it to stay there for long..