SP Elite Jacket - Cold Weather Condensation
 

I bought the Showers Pass Elite 2.0 jacket last year in July. It has performed admirably through the summer and fall. However, with air temperatures of 25 Deg F and below, I have experienced condensation on the inside of the jacket. This condensation is enough that it soaks through and begins to chill me during my 1 hr commute. This never occurred during some pretty healthy rainstorms, only a cold weather phenomena.

I talked with SP and followed their recommendations on using Nikwax Tech Wash, have experimented with the pit zips (open, closed, half way) and do not believe I am wearing too much clothing underneath - for example, this morning at 5 Deg F wore a long sleeve polypro tee shirt and mid weight fleece.

This weekend I went to Target and bought a Champion C9 100% polyester windbreaker jacket (on sale for $13) - tried it out this morning and no condensation.

Has anyone else experienced this condensation with SP Elite? I will still use it Spring - Fall, but in winter will have to use something more breathable in cold conditions. I believe the vapor is condensing in the cold shell.

That is pretty typical for membrane-style waterproofs. If it is cold and damp, the relative humidity outside your jacket can be too high to allow vapour to pass easily. I prefer windproofs over waterproofs when its not raining.
A couple of solutions in the UK, where cold and damp are not unusual include:
http://www.paramo.co.uk/en-gb/
and
http://www.buffalosystems.co.uk/
Both are favoured by Scottish winter climbers, mountain rescue and other serious users over Goretex style winter jackets.

I've had this issue with my SP century jacket. What I do is put a wool layer under the jacket. I still get damp, but no longer get cold.

I have the same issue with my SP Century. I wear 2 wicking base layers & a vest & it doesn't seem to bother me but some days I can shake out a lot of moisture

Peace
SteveO

Thanks very much for the advice. I am also considering buying the Yellowjacket Wind Jacket from J & G Cyclewear. Basically I would use the SP jacket from spring through fall and the Yellowjacket in winter.

http://bicycleclothing.com/Wind-Jackets.html

I read some other posts that had good things to say about this jacket for winter riding.

+1 on the Yellowjacket Wind Jacket. I just got mine and it's perfect for my commutes that can be 30F+ (40 today) difference in temperature.

No snow here, of course, so YMMV.

at -25C my friends goretex jacket is frozen solid like a board and TRAPs the moisture, i think something about the vapour freezing on the membrane is the problem...

Just an idea..

You can't keep the shell warm enough for it to function. Not like you're going to be encountering rain at those temps anyways so a more permeable fabric is advisable such as windstopper or even canvas...

kccommuter, you replied to an earlier threat of mine..but basically you hit the nail on the head. I experienced the same problem today. on the way home, I only wore one wool layer and i was cold and now i feel sick. My lungs are wheezing and my chest just don't feel right. It took me a long time to warm my body up.

That being said, it is comforting to know that others are experiencing the same problem.

To expand(correct me if i'm wrong), the relative humidity in your jacket is far higher because the air in the jacket is very warm and that allows it to have a high absolute humidity(from sweat vapour). Lets say the air outside has a lower relative humidity. So far that is good.. the higher pressure warm air should move through the membrane to the outside, but the problem is the temperature difference is too great. The dewpoint of the air inside your jacket is for sure higher than the dewpoint of the air outside. For example if the jacket air is 20c and 50% relative humidity then the dewpoint(condensation point) of that air is 9.27C... which will lead to instant condensation when it hits the jacket wall which is cooler.

From the wikipedia...So i guess the question is how fast can you move the vapor outside before it cools and condenses on the inside? I'm guessing this dewpoint effect overwhelms the ability/mechanism of eVent and goretex shell to pass vapour out...
Some more information about eVent and condensation.

I have an SP Elite 2.0 jacket, and I do notice the condensation. However, I really haven't had a huge problem with this. It sounds to me like you might be dressed a little too warm, and that could be a contributing factor. I have been surprised at how little I need to wear under the SP jacket down to 10F. I typically just wear a long sleeve poly base shirt, very lightweight [not marketed as a thermal - made for warmer weather] and a short sleeve t-shirt on top. The poly shirt keeps the jacket off my skin, and the t shirt helps to absorb residual moisture. I will be a little chilly for the first mile or so depending on how hard I am riding, but I typically arrive at work feeling quite nice.

Try dressing down a little under the jacket, and ride hard enough to stay warm but not break a big sweat. That seems to be the key for comfortable cold commutes.

Yup, it is just a waterproof and somewhat breathable shell. It is more important to not over-heat from too much insulation and start to sweat. This is where pitzips and other zips are far more important than the membrane. No membrane i know of can handle an all out sweaty aerobic effort for very long. If it isn't raining or snowing constantly just take off the shell and put on something to cut the wind before you feel warm.

I had the same problem with an older SP model made of Pertex. I called them and they recommended the Elite jacket. Instead, I bought a $20 lightly lined Altrec rain jacket. I got lucky. It served me through two winters in Maine. Never got wet and the lining kept my skin dry.

28 Feb 2010 Update:

I have had an additional year of experience biking through the winter in Wisconsin. Since January 2009, I had used the Yellowjacket Wind Jacket. It is a great jacket with pit zips, however, on cold, windy days, (temps below 20 Deg F) the fabric is too permeable and the wind goes through it. This winter, I became very chilled on a number of occasions. After that, I put back on the SP Elite jacket. Once I accepted that there would be some condensation, I was fine.

I have been using the SP Elite jacket the past 2 months and am pleased with its performance. I think the fact that I paid so much for it, I was expecting it to cure cancer. I tried TechWash, dressing lightly, pit zip position, etc to stop the condensation, but was not successful. However, now that I accept that there will be some condensation - it is not a problem.

A bit of condensation isn't too bad as long as your insulation stays dry.. but you should really ditch the SP jacket if it isn't raining and try some wind-resistant fleeces.

Wow - thanks for coming back and updating the thread! :-)

It's really great to know how it turned out.

I also have a Shower's Pass Elite jacket for winter biking. It's worked "great" compared to the non-windproof stuff I was using before, but my feeling is similar to how you describe it. I haven't noticed condensation specifically, but it gets slightly clammy in the jacket. Thing is, with my non-windproof stuff after 2 hours of riding I would start to feel really cold. With my Shower's Pass jacket, after 2 hours of riding I feel the same if not better as I did at the beginning of my ride. Still feels slightly clammy - no worse than after my 15 minutes of riding, which is pretty cool.

I'm still hoping to run across something better. I was going to buy my dad a Gore Phantom jacket (windstopper), but he tried it on and didn't like it - the zipper was on the wrong side, but more importantly the zipper had a tendency to come apart (the 2 sides of the zipper would seperate) halfway up. So sadly, that was a no-go.

I've been curious to see if a Polartech "Wind Pro" jacket would do the trick for colder winter days with no threat of rain...it would definitely be more breathable, but it's windproofness is slightly more suspect. In the meantime, my Shower's Pass jacket continues solidly performing, though it's not 100% perfect for the task.

Nice update KC.

Paulrivers: Try Foxwear jacket.
http://www.foxwear.net/
Under $100.00, handmade by Lou in Idaho. He uses a mix of material but all of it softshell. Polartec Power-shield on front, arms, shoulders and upper back and Polartec Power-stretch underarms and lower back is the key. P-Shield blocks 98% wind and P-Stretch vents well. Often during winter I only use this with a poly top. I then add wool sweaters(varying thickness) to augment the really cold temps. Last year I had no problems @ 3F/-16C. It can go lower but we haven't had anything lower since I've owned it.

I have been happy with the performance of my J&G rain jacket as a winter jacket, with long johns and a vest under it.

I use a Showers Pass Touring for winter commuting in Minnesota. I have not had any codensation issues with the jacket. I don't think that the touring is an e-vent jacket. I use the jacket with just long sleeve wool shirt underneat in temperatures in the single digits below zero.

I should add that from what i know the e-Vent fabric doesn't handle condensation like Gore-tex does... Condensate on an e-vent jacket seems to reduce the breathability especially in the cold ... goretex works a bit differently and can handle a bit more condensate - in fact it needs some to start working... Basically the differences are that e-vent removed the wicking polyurethane layer and replaced it with a fancy silicon layer to cover the ePTFE, which improved breath-ability but is also subject to contamination more readily and from what i've been hearing does not perform so hot. Be sure to wash your e-vent in only specific "tech wash" detergents for this reason.

In theory neither fabric should be worn while you do aerobic exercise unless it is raining or heavily snowing.

2 coats. one waterproof, one wind.

less waterproofs, more breathable jackets when it isnt raining like many have said.

I've used an iconic MEC cycling jacket for a long time, and have been experimenting the last few years with a variety of EPIC encapsulated fabrics.

in seattle, as a daily rider, may put on a bonifide waterproof coat a dozen days out of the year. two coats with one not waterproof/more breathable is a effective strategy.

Edit: I use showers pass Event knickers, but there Event seems to work admirably. lots of venting. EVENT coats i've used will still condensate.

I also own one of those MEC jackets, in fact i was in the store the other day and they have re-designed it... waaay more venting options now, which imho is almost if not more important than fabric when riding a bike.

i don't know for sure if we're describing the same jacket. I'm thinking of my MEC supermicrofit jacket.

for winter cycling in every weather EXCEPT wet slush or extended heavy rain,

the MEC Supermicrofit cycling jacket. every cyclist needs one. and affordable! on sale right now $45 CAN. very similar to the J&G yellow jacket...

MEC super microfit jacket

Ohhh, the hacket, haha...! i thought you meant their whoosh rain jacket.