genec

Try to keep in mind that many of those idiot people that do the harassing, have no idea that cyclists have legal rights to use the roadways. In many cases they think you are using their roadways for your fun and games. I have had long conversations with folks (not confrontational) that have no idea that we have full legal rights to use the road. It was often their belief that they were doing cyclists a favor by not hitting them.

This is where education of all road users would do us some good. But as long as the roads are designed with only autos in mind, auto drivers will continue to believe they own the road.

genec

Uh, there are "jackdonkeys" that do get up in the morning and decide to do something stupid for their own entertainment... think of it as the dark side of "jackass." It happens. A good (bad) example are graffiti taggers.

CB HI

Good thing psychology is not your profession.

I am the type of guy who is not willing to give up my freedoms or willingly allow bullies to intimidate me. Just calling the cops on people like this, has not worked here in Hawaii. Cleaning spit off of a car is a small consequence, but one that seems to work, as none of these people has ever passed close to me again.

But you seem to be one of those folks that always wants to blame the cyclist. That if a cyclist even says a four letter word, then the cyclist got what they deserve. That seems to be a common theme in you BF post.

They may not get up in the morning thinking “today is the day I get to harass a cyclist”. But at some point, this guy made the conscious decision to harass the cyclist ahead of him precisously because I was on a bicycle, (the cyclist who was riding a bicycle that he did not consider a vehicle and that he felt, had no right to be on his road). After making that conscious decision, he then took the action of tailgating, honking and passing < 1 foot.

Roody

I get very few close passes. When I do, I don't usually think the driver is deliberately and consciously harrassing me. Most of the time it's an honest mistake, or they're not real bright and they don't realize that they're passing too close.

OTOH, if it really is a deliberate act, the driver will yell at you, laugh, rev his engine, and/or give you the finger.

CB HI

Yes, cheerleaders. The high school variety in full uniform, driving in a minivan, heading to one of the football playoff games that weekend. The fact Square & Compass was riding a bent, likely had something to do with them hanging out the windows and cheering and giving the shaka sign.

Roody

I doubt if any of those people have ever passed you again at all.

I have a lot of respect for you, CB, but spitting is gross and it almost seems like you're becoming some kind of vigilante type. Yelling and the finger are socially acceptable (more or less), but spitting is over the top IMO.

CB HI

It is about 50-50 here. I also get very few close passes, thankfully.
The people that intentionally pass close in Hawaii, are doing so to intimidate and piss off the cyclist. They are cowardly bullies. They almost never yell and rarely give a hand gesture. After they pass close, they watch their mirror for the desired hand gesture from the cyclist or the swerve off the road or the cyclist yelling. Doing any of those things, gives the JAM exactly what they want.

I flip the situation, and they end up being the ones pissed.

The distracted drivers never even see what I do and just keep driving, no reaction. With one exception, the distracted drivers are unlikely to be distracted every time they pass me. That one exception is an eye doctor that works in the same building in downtown Honolulu that my office is in. She starts talking on her cell phone the second she gets into her new Jaguar (she buys a new Jaguar every year). She has passed very close on three occasions while on the phone. Whenever I see her Jaguar in my mirror, I now simply move off the road.

You would be wrong there. I live in a suburb that is geographically isolated by gulches. There is one highway and one freeway running through it. The highway is the only way out of the suburb for cyclist either heading north or south (no east/west roads out of town). So heading into or out of the suburb, as well as riding around the burb, I routinely see the same motorist. There has been a positive change in behavior from these motorist. With the exception of one, these harassing motorist no longer pass me close, nor do they honk their horns.

The one exception is a 45 year old watch salesman who harassed me by also tailgating, honking his horn, and intentionally passing too close. I did nothing to provoke this man. The problem was, that he really did pass way too close and hit me with his side view mirror. He fled the scene (even though his wife and son were in the car). I reported him and he now has a guilty record for hit and run (on top of his unrelated speeding and DUI convictions). He and his lawyers tried to retaliate by claiming I harassed, stocked and extorted him and his family (which did not work) and was done in part as a legal defense strategy. His insurance paid me over $400 in property damage but he was not covered for lost work time. So my ability to sue him over the next two years for the lost work time, kept him on good behavior (using the freeway rather than the highway). After his probation ended and the two year limit for me to file a law suit expired a year ago, he has been driving the highway and honking his horn while passing about two feet from me. I have videoed a few of these occurrences, so when he once again claims I am harassing him, I will have proof of who the harassing party is. There is that one in a million that just never learns their lesson; and I have one that lives within a mile of me.

Even this situation is sort of comical. The guy originally hit me while driving his wife’s mercedes benz. During the high gas prices, he no longer drove his honda or his wife’s benz. He was now driving a Scion tC (as in high school kids cheap sports car). The Scion tC has a real wimpy horn and every time he honks it at me, trying to scare me, I just can’t stop laughing at him and his tC.

lil brown bat

You spit on a car, and then you stood around for the better part of an hour getting into a snit with a couple of idjits, and you want to make out like this is some kind of bold stand for freedom? Such drama.

So let's see...apparently I'm no psychologist because I observed that you seem to be playing a childish game over whose behavior was worse...but you're spot on with your observation that, because I said that, I "seem to be one of those folks who always wants to blame the cyclist"? Dude, get yourself a couch and go into practice, toot sweet!

I believe it's already been pointed out to you that in all likelihood, he didn't know that you had the right to use the lane. Yet rather than simply point this out to him and go on your way, you gave yourself an atomic wedgie for over half an hour over it, and now you're convincing yourself that simple ignorance is anti-bicycle persecution. I'm not going to argue with your choice of recreational activities...just saying, as I did when I came into this thread, that it seems like a waste of time to me, and that in your place, I would have other things I'd rather be doing.

genec

Seems to me that what CB did was ensure that the idjits were properly educated... as you point out below... I doubt that the driver would have gone off with just the word from CB, and in fact now has had a lesson reinforced by five oh.

"Recreational vehicles" hoo boy... you just hit the nail on the head of the problem. How about "transportation..."

Just because someone does not choose to drive a car and feed the "oil machine" doesn't make them any less a valid user of the road... there in lies the problem, far too many motorists deciding that they own the road and that bikes are just toys. How and why anyone uses their transportation at any time has no bearing on the validity of the vehicle and where it can be used. If we went by your line of reasoning, anyone driving an RV should not be permitted on the road.

And as far as the time it takes to educate some of these clueless morons, like those that tangled with CB... it is not time wasted if they finally "get a clue." Seems to me CB offered a valuable service and educated someone for really very little overhead.

CB HI

With motorist who endanger cyclist lives, you bet. The only problem is, the term vigilante implies some sort of illegal retaliation. I have done nothing illegal. I view my action as more towards safety management, in attempting to legally alter the unsafe behavior. If calling the cops worked, then I would use that method.

Cyclist is Hawaii were able to change the behavior of commercial truckers here. Repeated claims and complaints to their insurance companies caused the insurance companies to threaten the truckers union with dropping insurance coverage for commercial trucking companies. In less than one week back in 1998, truckers completely changed their attitude towards cyclist. I have only had one trucker pass too close since 1998 (excluding one non-union company that moved tourist baggage from the airport to hotels and likely did not use CDL drivers). They have since gone out of business.

The public bus drivers on Oahu have generally been very safe drivers. There have been two periods of time when supervisors have exerted strong pressure for drivers to maintain their schedules. The problem was the schedules the drivers were given for a particular route (the same roads I commute on) were impossible to keep. The schedule should have been revised to be reasonable during rush hours, as well as implementing other methods (such as inserting an extra bus into the route on the extra heavy traffic days). To stay out of trouble, the bus drivers began taking foolish risk that endangered cyclist. My complaints to customers service were ignored. I got the private number to their safety manager, who blew me off. My parting words to the safety manager was “sooner or later, a driver on route 62 is going to seriously hurt or kill someone”. The next day, a route 62 driver ran over one of their own customers. When the senior vice president learned that I planned on contacting the injured woman’s lawyers to testify on her behalf, he wanted to meet with me and come up with a memo to bus drivers on safely passing cyclist. The pressure to maintain schedules was also dropped. I have had the senior VPs private number since and he listens when I tell him they are starting to have problems with a driver.

So, if you really want to call that type of advocacy, “vigilante”, so be it.

If we can finally fix the handful of private motorist and the tourist bus drivers next, then Oahu will be cycling heaven.

unterhausen

This place is full of cyclists with an inferiority complex and a driver's point of view that cyclists should cower before the mighty car. If we all rode assertively, we wouldn't get honked at so much. It's simply not possible to avoid all conflict with drivers and cowering in the gutter isn't always possible. One day I was riding peacefully along, and someone yelled at me out of a car for their amusement. I decided we should have a day where cyclists do that sort of thing as payback for all the asinine crap that's been pulled on me over the years by motorists. Haven't worked out the details yet.

I admire CB HI for his ability to spit, I can barely get off a good slap on most cars that are passing too close. The last guy that passed me too close was probably less than a foot from my handlebars, and I only just barely got a slap in front of the taillight. Doesn't have the same effect as a good slap in the middle of a fender or a door. It was some geezer, I'm sure he didn't think twice about it. Funny thing is that the last guy that tried to run me off the road gave me good clearance on the way by.

I want to see pictures of the spit. I agree that spitting is potentially dangerous, but I'm sure I have had run-ins with 50 motorists that deserved to have their car spit on.

Mo'Phat

I was just here for pictures of cheerleaders...

Spitting discussions, although RIVETING, aren't what I'm paying for.

CB HI

Sorry, neither Square & Compass or I had a camera ready for the unexpected but appreciated cheering. If only more motorist would keep a cheerleader at the ready.

lil brown bat

It didn't take 40 minutes to "educate" him, it took 10 seconds. Or it would have, if...

What are you talking about? My words were "recreational choices", not "recreational vehicles", and I was referring to OP's choice to engage in a urinating contest.

CB HI

Yet, you have likely spent far more time here on BFs in the urinating contest that you have repeatedly engaged in.

the_villain

Precious.

genec

That is a big IF... it took cops to do the education... blame the delay on their response, not CB.

Yes you did say "recreational choices," as if to imply that the use of bike by CB or any other rider is strictly recreational. To emphasize the idiocy of your statement, I simply took it to its extreme. Frankly any driver on the road may be using their car for a "recreational choice" (especially in Hawaii) and yet you don't seem to object to their use.

Commuter76

genec,

I took his phrase "recreational choices" to mean time he DOESN'T spend traveling (no matter the mode of transport). I'm pretty sure he wasn't referring to bike commuting as a "recreational choice".

AlmostTrick

Actually it was "her" phrase and it was "recreational activities", and I took it as what one likes to do for kicks.

Standing up to those who you feel wronged you is commendable in my book. Fun for some, stressful for others. Sometimes it is even more stressful to just hold it in and not say/do anything.

Asymmetriad

True. Spit plays an important role in breaking down starches.

Alfster 

What's to deny? If he's close enough to slap his car, then he's automatically in the wrong.

EatMyA**

There is a lot of win in this thread

Phrenetis

'There's no proof he slapped my car' etc etc

Roody

You need to read it again, gene, because you're way off on your comprehension of what lil brown bat said. It's perfectly clear that what LBB meant by "recreational activity" is standing by a roadside waiting for a cop, NOT cycling.

IMO you owe him an apology for your mean spirited rant based on a complete misreading.

Roody

This thread doesn't spit.

It sucks.