Jamis Coda vs. Giant Escape R
 

So, I've been looking for a commuter bike to go with slightly longer distances than my granny-bike can currently handle, and I thought I had it narrowed down to the Giant Escape R2 (different from the UK model of the same name): an aluminum-frame hybrid bike with carbon fork, suspension seat-post and all the all the requisite braze-ons for fenders, rack and such. Plus, I found a place that's offering it for ¥66,920 (a 15% discount on the MSRP).

My opinion's started to shift, though. First, after my question on fenders from a few days ago, I asked the opinion of the people at the LBS (the Matsubara branch of Cycle Base Asahi). I was told that the Escape R (which has 42.5-cm chainstays) doesn't really have enough clearance for full fenders; it might work, but their past experience says they'd probably have to cut a hole to give the front derailleur enough room to operate, which could rob the material of some of its strength.

A few days later, I ventured up to another pro shop recommended by one of the myriad cycling magazines available here, and found both a Jamis Coda for ¥48,000 and a Coda Sport for ¥67,000. (Neither price may seem like much of a bargain in the US, but they're a 25% discount on the Japanese retail value.) I like these, too, although they're heavier (the Coda and Coda Sport are both about 1.5 lbs heavier than their Giant counterparts, the Escape R3 and Escape R2). Chainstay length is 43.5 cm, which gives an edge over the Giant model at a possible loss of pedaling power (not that I remember enough high school physics to tell you how much). Wheelbase is also a bit longer than the Giant (104.7 cm vs. 101.7), which means... not sure, really. Other than that, they're identical in most respects, though the Jamis uses Shimano hardware while the Giant uses SRAM.

So, I'm asking all of you: If you had to choose between the Jamis Coda Sport and the Giant Escape R2, which would you choose? (You could also feel free to point me towards something else you feel is better, though this will inevitably lead me to more existential self-doubt and indecision.)

I would get a model that has drops on it. I dig the Jamis ones better.

I've never tried the Giant. But I have a Jamis Coda Comp and it's fantastic. Being a smooth steel frame, it rides like butter. I find aluminum frames to be a much harsher ride. Can you try them both out and see which one fits you best and which you like best? That would be the ideal way to decide. Best of luck!

42.5cm chainstays are near the minimum length for fitting in a 700C wheel. IIRC the shortest you'd see is 41cm. 43.5cm chainstays are still towards the short end. The longest chainstay you'd find on a production bike is 47cm. A change of 1cm is wildly unlikely to cause enough additional flex to reduce your pedaling efficiency... if it does, that means the welds on the frame are bad, and your bottom bracket shell will crack away from the other tubes. That is a serious warranty issue, and no sane bike manufacturer would risk it. The other thing is such short chainstays make for a bike with a low cargo limit... me on a 42cm chainstay bike meant it could only handle about 30-35lbs. Go over that, and the handling would be like I was riding on ice. Not fun. Since that phenomenon depends on how weight is distributed, another rider might have the same trouble at 20lbs, or 40.

What I'd do to start is take your granny bike and do a dry run of your new commute. Keep track of what hurts, what's annoying... and check your tire pressure beforehand. Muscle soreness is usually ok, but if a body part hurts, goes numb or is otherwise yelling, it's telling you something is wrong. If there's specific things your bike doesn't do well, have a list. This will make it a lot easier for the shop staff, because then you've got specific things to fix.

I've thought about it, but all the models that have both eyelets for fenders and drop bars are a little outside my price range right now (and I've never used them before, so I'm a little nervous about that prospect). I thought I'd at least start out with straight bars, and if I feel up to it, switch over to drops once I have the funds to do so.

That's good to know. I plan to at start out by carrying my work bags over my shoulder, but to get a rack and pannier(s) once it starts to get hot, so I'd like not to have issues with stability (though I doubt I'd have close to that much cargo on the typical workday).

I also noticed that the Trek 7.3 FX (which is another potential buy, though harder to find a discount of more than 10% on here) has 44.5-cm chainstays, and an even longer wheelbase (105.8) than the others... though both the frame and the fork are aluminum.

It's not so much what hurts (my butt), but that it's incredibly exhausting to lug a 40-odd-pound single-speed eight-and-a-half miles over somewhat hilly terrain in each direction. (Osaka Prefecture is mostly flat in the middle, but it's still got some decent-sized slopes, regardless.) I don't know... maybe I'm just not in as good shape / as crazy as some of you guys are. :p I'd like to have something I can get up to a more consistently fast pace on, without wearing myself out for the rest of the ride after 5–10 minutes. As long as I'm doing that, I figured I might as well spring for a bike that'd be fun just to take for a spin on weekends and such. Hence where I am now: looking at a set of similar-yet-vaguely-different hybrid bikes, trying to determine both which is the best value and which is best for my needs.

Just realize that if you ever want to go with drops you are most likely going to have to buy a whole new bike.

And why is that, exactly? Is it the frame geometry? Incompatibility between derailleurs/brakes and drop-bar shifters/levers? Something else?

FWIW, I used my Jamis Coda for a 28-mile round trip commute with panniers, often including a laptop (in an Arkel laptop pannier). It was so much faster than my 1986 Stumpjumper. You will feel like you are flying when you get a lighter bike.

The longer chainstays should give a little more clearance and help prevent your heels from scrubbing against your panniers when you get them. As far as having to get a new bike if you go to drop bars - for the cost of the individual items you need to make the transition, you could easily buy a good used bike with drop bars and save yourself the hassle of changing everything over. Plus, the geometry of the bikes will be a little different and the ride quality may never be quite comfortable for you. Of course, all this is dependent upon your individual tastes and the fit you prefer. I personally love the Jamis steel frames and they get good reviews as far as I remember. Enjoy your new bike, whichever way you go!

Thanks for the advice. (Also, by way of the heel clearance issue, I'm not particularly big: 5′9.5″/174 cm, 156-ish lbs/11.2 stone/71 kg. I might not need to worry about my heels, regardless.) Guess I really ought to make a concrete decision about the handlebars before I take the plunge.

...Agh, so many things to think about. I guess the first thing is to actually try out some of these bikes. Would be nice if these bike dealers had more space to test them out on. I wonder if they could just hook it up to one of those trainer-majigs...

Changing a bike that has flat bars to one with drops involves ponying up a lot of dough for the swap. Not only do you need new bars, but depending on the width, you'll also need a new stem. Other than that, you'll need new shifters/brakes. The nicest but most expensive version of these is the brifter (integrated shifter/brake) but they cost a couple of hundred for a low end version.

Besides the expense you're adding drops to a geometry that wasn't necessarily designed for them and this could cause discomfort....not necessarily, but it is a possibility.

You're better off saving a little longer and getting a bike with drops if that's what you think you want. Take a couple for test rides before making up your mind.

One more thing. On a personal note, I commute 16 miles round trip. I originally bought an older hardtail mountain bike to be my commuter(flat handlebars, more upright geometry, wide road tires, etc.). Later I bought a road bike with drops, skinny tires and so on. The hardest decision I have to make before I go in to work is which one am I going to ride today! I love them both, even though many folks told me I'd never ride the mtb again after commuting on the road bike. As a rule, the only time the road bike wins out clearly ahead of time is if there are strong winds and I know I'll be tired coming home! Just make sure you're going to like what you pick. That's the important thing. Look forward to getting on and riding every day, and you have made the right choice.:thumb:

If you want drops, there is always the Jamis Aurora, the Kona Dew Drop, and others. :-)

-Jon

Thanks for elaborating, I should have in my original post.

Yeah it really has to do with the cost. If you buy a bike that is $550 there is not point in spending $2-300+ and giving it drops. If you would prefer drop just wait and save and get a bike that is meant to have drops.

Dealers should let you take test drives. If nothing else they should allow you to ride around in the parking lot. If they dont I would take my business elsewhere.

I had a Giant Hybrid. It was a little big and a little rigid for my tastes. I now have a Jamis Coda Elite (disc). Much more comfortable. I've also got fenders, rack (Delta Megarack Sport) and fairly large panniers on it. None were difficult to install and I've never struck the panniers with my heels. I'm your size.

Straight bars are one diameter. Drop bars are a different, larger diameter. So parts that slide onto a straight bar won't even *fit* on a drop bar. It's a huge pain, and very stupid.

The reason to go with drops is comfort. If you're like me and my finicky wrists, drop bars give you 2-3 positions where your wrist is lined up in a neutral position. That prevents hand numbness, and since you've got several slightly different positions, you can move around and give yourself some breaks on the bikes. It's meant to prevent RSI. (there are some further advantages for racing, but most of us aren't racing)

If you want to get similar advantages on a bike meant for straight bars, you'll have a lot fewer choices. Nitto's North Road bar (and a host of similar ones from other makers) is one way. A trekking bar is another. You can add bar ends to a straight bar, and for some folks that works very well.

It really depends on you and *your* body tho.

Eh, I'm not in all that great shape at the moment. I was down for all of November and December with a knee injury. I won't be back up to doing 17 miles for a bit yet :). My main advantage is *my* granny bike has 7 speeds, and they're very well suited to how I ride. Even tho I'm weak as a kitten, I can still ride in a lower gear than normal and spin.

As far as your butt hurting, it shouldn't if you're used to a given distance. After being cooped up for so long, I did have some pain because my body was going "wait, you want to do WHAT???" But it was the normal and familiar pain of my body trying to remember just how my pelvis goes on the saddle. Next ride, I went a good 3 miles further, and had no pain. It might gripe again when I hit 20 miles at a go.

So while you're test riding, you want to try as much different stuff as possible. When I was shopping, I ended up going "I want the saddle from that one, and the bars from that one, and the fit of this other one..." So I bought the one with the frame that fit, and stuck on the saddle that fit. The nice bars are a compatible diameter, so I can swap them in when I want to really push distance. The stock ones let me go at least 25 miles, so it's not real urgent.

It's good to hear from someone with experience with a Giant model. All I've really had to go on so far was the advice of bike shop employees and one Welsh acquaintance who's a bit of an oddball (a veteran sportsman who intentionally bought a too-small frame due to an old back injury that makes it hard to mount/dismount on the proper size). It's come with a fair number of recommendations, but also the warnings about the harsh ride and incompatibility with full fenders.

Also (and I hope you don't mind me asking), what size frame do you use? According to the rule of thumb used by the bike shop I asked at, I'm on the higher end of the range for a 17.5″ frame and on the low side for a 19.5″, though I've only been able to try out the 17.5″ model due to what they had in stock at the time.

EDIT: Incidentally, I also checked the clearance in back on both the Giant and Jamis models today, and the bike tech agreed that I'd have a much easier time with full fenders on the Coda.

I remember trying both the 19.5 and 17.5. Same issue with the Giant. And since in the end I thought the Giant was a little big, I went with the 17.5 Jamis. If you look at the geometry, the difference between the sizes seems to have more to do with the seat tube/standover height than with reach. The effective top tube (how I always buy bikes) on the 17.5/19.5 is 560mm/570mm. So a 10cm shorter stem completely compensates for the difference from 19.5->17.5. The seat tube is 2" longer on the 19.5, but seat posts are adjustable. The 17.5 does buy you more standover height at no disadvantage that I can tell.

Here are a few pics of my Coda:
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9367/snc00018.jpg
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/679/snc00019.jpg

Regarding the drop bar subject above, I saved this pic a while ago of someone else's Coda drop bar conversion as I thought it was interesting:
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/915...thdropbars.jpg
Instant cyclocross bike!