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Solid/Airless tires

Old 03-21-09, 03:15 PM
  #1  
Lazerus_Shade
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Solid/Airless tires

Before making any suggestion let me point out. I have been on these forums for 2 years dealing with this issue. I have used 5 types of sealant 3 types of tires including armadilos 7 thorn gaurd types thorn resistant tubes and every combination you can think of. If your suggestion consist of ANY of these items hit the back button on your browser now. Unless you can give a 100% garantee that i will NEVER have to fix another tire flat do not post.

Ok so i found these www.airfreetires.com.
They look promising, but i want opinions. Basically here is what the situation is. I ride a lot as summer comes on each year i plan on putting in 200+ miles on my bike this summer. problem is i live in Utah which like most of the western united states has a problem with goatheads. (for those that don't know what they are here is a picture.
https://texnat.tamu.edu/cmplants/toxi.../goathead3.jpg

Now then any one who has run into these things knows they are mean evil little things that are every where. I primarily hit a paved bike trail in my area, but as you can imagine off tot he side of the trail are thousands of these things. even staying on the trail after 2 miles i pick up 10. If i go off trail for even 5 feet i pick up 50+ easily.

With that said my father has started riding with me this year, and within the first week between us have had 4 flats. He has offered to purchase some airless tires for my bike if i do the research and give the go ahead. I have warned him that a decent pair of tires can run up to 100$ so cost is not so much of a concern. What i want is people who have had these types of tires to put in their 2 cents and give some good solid advise on what would be a good tire to go with. I am aware of all the issues with these tires like rolling instalation dificulties the feel ect... I no longer care i want to try the tires myself if you have no first hand experience im not interested in any alternatives you have to offer such as a new type of slime tire tube thorn gaurd ect...
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Old 03-21-09, 03:22 PM
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I don't have personal experience, but I've seen other threads saying they're slow, hard, cause rim damage, and are prone to rolling off the rim.

My suggestion is Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires - not all kevlar lined tires are created equal.
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Old 03-21-09, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by degnaw View Post
I don't have personal experience, but I've seen other threads saying they're slow, hard, cause rim damage, and are prone to rolling off the rim.

My suggestion is Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires - not all kevlar lined tires are created equal.
+1... Go to BikeTiresDirect.com - They'll be about $35 apiece. You'll thank us later.
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Old 03-21-09, 03:32 PM
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In the olden days, cyclists bought Mr Tuffy tire liners to protect the tubes against punctures. The market listened to us and almost all tires made today have puncture protection. Flats are a thing of the past!
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Old 03-21-09, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by NormanF View Post
In the olden days, cyclists bought Mr Tuffy tire liners to protect the tubes against punctures. The market listened to us and almost all tires made today have puncture protection. Flats are a thing of the past!
You just jinxed the hell out of yourself.
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Old 03-21-09, 03:50 PM
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Schwalbe Marathons are the only tires that have the protection of Mr Tuffy tire liners.
Any other tire that says aramid belt or kevlar lining or whatever is not the same.
I still use the tuffys.
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Old 03-21-09, 04:02 PM
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I had tires from this company on my EZ-1 recumbent. I really didn't like the feeling on the back wheel so I took it off almost immediately. I kept the one on the front until the bike was stolen a year and a half ago. I recently got the bike back and the front tire was still on it. It had deteriorated greatly and it felt like I had double-sided tape on the tire. I'd go with suggestion to get the MPs.
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Old 03-21-09, 04:39 PM
  #8  
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Originally Posted by NormanF View Post
In the olden days, cyclists bought Mr Tuffy tire liners to protect the tubes against punctures. The market listened to us and almost all tires made today have puncture protection. Flats are a thing of the past!
Mr Tuffy tire liners = Thorn gaurds

Not to sound rude, but had you actually read the post you would realize that i have allready done all of this. the only suggestion i have yet to try that i have seen so far on these forums is to cut a section of tire tread off and add that to my tire inside to act as a thorn gaurd. Even with the my tires i have had 2 flats on my bike one last week and when i went out today i have another. So the tires do not work when it comes to super sized half inch long Goatheads. Every thing i have on my bike is supposed to make flats a thing of the past. All this has served is to proove to me that so long as the tire needs air it is capable of going flat.


(yes i measured it today the one that rippeed my tire apart was half an inch long it.)

So please don't suggest more tires that have even the slightest chance of going flat. Unless it has 100% garantee no flats for life i dont want to know about it any longer.

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Old 03-21-09, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by degnaw View Post
not all kevlar lined tires are created equal.
what about "100% garantee(sic)" no rolling-off-the-rim for life for airless? I'm assuming the chance of trip-ending catastrophic failure with an airless tire is greater than the chance of getting a flat with a Marathon Plus.
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Old 03-21-09, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by degnaw View Post
what about "100% garantee(sic)" no rolling-off-the-rim for life for airless? I'm assuming the chance of trip-ending catastrophic failure with an airless tire is greater than the chance of getting a flat with a Marathon Plus.

I am well aware of the horrible repurtation that these tires slow you down, feel spoungy, roll off the rims causing long walks home after a headfirst slam into the ground not to mention the number of people i have heard mention how hard they are to get on.

I want to try them for myself call me insane, but even after all the bad publicity i still feel it would be better than dealing with a flat tire every week. If i don't like them it isn't like i can't put my old tires back on and call this a lesson learned.
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Old 03-21-09, 05:52 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by Lazerus_Shade View Post
Now before any one suggestes it let me say right now i am using kevlar lined tires + thorn gaurd running inside + thorn resistant tubes + tire goop....i still get 1 to 3 flats a month. Considering how much im on the road thats pretty good, but it is still a pain in the @##
So, what's the cause of these one to three flats a month? Puncture is only one of several possible causes.
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Old 03-21-09, 06:24 PM
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Have you tried tubeless with Stan's sealant? https://www.notubes.com/support_movies.php Check out the demonstration of the death puncture course.
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Old 03-21-09, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by lil brown bat View Post
So, what's the cause of these one to three flats a month? Puncture is only one of several possible causes.
Its the thorns that much is painfully obvious. I pull the thorn out and hear the horrible SSSSssssSSSSS sound immediatly. Usually to pull them out i need a pair of pliers.

Originally Posted by frankenmike View Post
Have you tried tubeless with Stan's sealant? https://www.notubes.com/support_movies.php[/URL] Check out the demonstration of the death puncture course.
*sigh* yes i have along with 5 other brands sealants do not work they help cut back the issue but they do not get rid of it entirely which is the goal of asking about the tires i have.

Seriosly has no one on this forum actually tried these tires themselves? I have hunted through every thread i could find, and was even talked out of getting them a year ago based on the opinions, but i never saw any one post with first hand experiance which is why i am thinking about trying again now. I hate to say it but i am starting to think the information is just passed from one person to the next with no real first hand experience to back it up except that one guy XX years ago who doesnt even come on the forums any more.

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Old 03-21-09, 07:07 PM
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No one knows because hardly any serious cyclists would ever even consider them. I've worked on my share of bikes in the shop that had airless products already installed, and I can tell you for sure that the rims and hubs are going to take a serious beating (at best) or break (most likely IME). Have you really tried stan's notubes tubeless system? If installed properly, it really works.
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Old 03-21-09, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by frankenmike View Post
No one knows because hardly any serious cyclists would ever even consider them. I've worked on my share of bikes in the shop that had airless products already installed, and I can tell you for sure that the rims and hubs are going to take a serious beating (at best) or break (most likely IME). Have you really tried stan's notubes tubeless system? If installed properly, it really works.
Yes i have.

Honestly the problem is that the area i do most of my biking is this one bike path that runs from the north end of the salt lake valley to the south side. The trail is 25ish miles long. Now my option is take that trail or ride the streets...the trail is an easy ride with almost no contact with cars while the city streets here are not made for bikes 99% of the time and the drivers are rude and dangerous. We have had several people this year hit and killed here. So between the 2 the trail is better. Here is where the issue begins though the trail almost the entire way on both sides is covered with goathead weeds, and i suspect they are larger than you will find anywhere else. I have seen these things as large as my thumb, and capable of getting through shoes with thorns on average between 1/4 and 1/2 inch long though i have seen longer. Basically i wouldnt have even considerd these at all if it were not a completly desprate situation. I understand all the risks on these airless tires, but asside from increasing the amount of rubber on a set of tires to 3/4 of an inch thick i dont see any options worth trying any more.

In the case of some of the holes these things put in tires i have had acouple holes over the years you could stick fingers through. If you want an accurate idea of what the thorns are doing get yourself a swiss army knife and jab it into your tires. More often than not i end up replacing tires because they cant be patched any more with in 2 to 3 months.
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Old 03-21-09, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Lazerus_Shade View Post
Its the thorns that much is painfully obvious. I pull the thorn out and hear the horrible SSSSssssSSSSS sound immediatly. Usually to pull them out i need a pair of pliers.
Uggggh...sucks to be you Sorry, no thorns worth mentioning where I ride, I got nothin' for ya.
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Old 03-21-09, 08:15 PM
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Have you tried the search function?
I only ask because I can see you are getting frustrated and I know I've read several threads in the past from people that own/did own these tires.
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Old 03-21-09, 08:37 PM
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I live in Southern AZ and mtb with Stans tubeless and run the Stans and "ghetto tubeless" liners. I have run straight into prickly pairs and not gotten a flat. Goatheads: no problem. You must install these properly or they wont seal. I know you said you try them, but everyone here uses stans tubeless or an equivalent with no issues for many miles.
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Old 03-21-09, 09:11 PM
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Rig a small brush at an angle in front of each wheel so the goatheads get pushed to one side instead of rolling under your tires.
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Old 03-21-09, 09:19 PM
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I have only one thing to say, DON'T buy from airfree if at all possible. depending on the size, you can buy what air free calls their "legacy" tires direct from the MFR Nu Teck

air Free basically screwed me out of my money, continuously telling me my tire were 'next on the list to come in"... never did... finally they agreed to refund my money... but they didn't... by the time I reported it to VISA, it was too late for them to do anything... purchase was more than 90 days prior...
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Old 03-21-09, 09:45 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Lazerus_Shade View Post
Yes i have.

Honestly the problem is that the area i do most of my biking is this one bike path that runs from the north end of the salt lake valley to the south side. The trail is 25ish miles long. Now my option is take that trail or ride the streets...the trail is an easy ride with almost no contact with cars while the city streets here are not made for bikes 99% of the time and the drivers are rude and dangerous. We have had several people this year hit and killed here. So between the 2 the trail is better. Here is where the issue begins though the trail almost the entire way on both sides is covered with goathead weeds, and i suspect they are larger than you will find anywhere else. I have seen these things as large as my thumb, and capable of getting through shoes with thorns on average between 1/4 and 1/2 inch long though i have seen longer. Basically i wouldnt have even considerd these at all if it were not a completly desprate situation. I understand all the risks on these airless tires, but asside from increasing the amount of rubber on a set of tires to 3/4 of an inch thick i dont see any options worth trying any more.

In the case of some of the holes these things put in tires i have had acouple holes over the years you could stick fingers through. If you want an accurate idea of what the thorns are doing get yourself a swiss army knife and jab it into your tires. More often than not i end up replacing tires because they cant be patched any more with in 2 to 3 months.
OK, I feel, have felt and TOTALLY understand your anger, frustration...I've screamed a/t gods for the curse of flats. I wanted a TOTALLY flat free existance...NO EXCEPTIONS!!! Have put well over 12,000 commuting miles on 3 different sets of airless tires in 3 diffferent sizes and psi ratings. Does this qualify me to answer your cry for help? YES!

Ok, that out of the way here's what you do: Go to https://www.nu-teck.com. Order the 700x35mm touring tires @ 130 psi and the mounting tool. Don't try mounting them w/o the tool..it's, virtually impossible. Use 2 8" cable ties per mounting and a little liquid soap. Cut them off after mounting's completed. Problem solved. No more goathead soup. Be prepared to have a slower ride by 1-2 mph. DON'T get 28mm @ 130 psi...you'll break spokes. Unless you weigh 140 lbs. Make sure your rims will take 17-19mm beaded tires...if they wont, get new rims that will. Sun CR-18s are perfect. The combo of high psi/thick tire will give less rolling resistance and adequate cushioning. DON'T go thru airfreetires.com...it's a front company. Go direct to Nu-teck as they're the manufacturer.

After 2 years of blessed, flat-free commuting I got tired of the 'grind' of a 40 mi per day commute and gave SMPs a try. I'm VERY happy w/them, but don't deal w/goatheads where I live. Replaced all of my airless sets w/them. I keep one bike w/airless. It's an old Specialized Crossroads hybrid I call 'the Beast'. If all my bikes go down it's my fail/safe-get to work bike.

Feel free to PM me questions re airless tires. I believe for an urban 10 mi or under commute they're great. Or like in your case, a goathead infested 'nightmare commute from Hell' they're the ONLY flat-free answer. Hope my answers have been helpful.

Last edited by nashcommguy; 03-22-09 at 11:20 AM. Reason: spelling...duh!
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Old 03-21-09, 10:01 PM
  #22  
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You could buy a cheap wheelset and the tires and try them. This is such an ugly topic and it'd be nice to have someone give a real review. Someone who genuinely needed a solution like this.

I have my doubts about their performance. A pneumatic tire can spread the force of an impact out across the whole tire. A foam tire can't do that. But maybe you're willing to live with performance issues to not change flats: Certainly understandable.

I wonder if you could carry a tube and a folder when you start out. If one rolls off the rim can you fully remove it and replace it with your folding tire? It's a bit of an expensive experiment but if you're worried about walking a dozen miles it's a good way to go.
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Old 03-21-09, 10:37 PM
  #23  
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I have no personal experience with thorns, but have heard of these

Thorn Catchers

to be effective. From the looks, they cannot be mounted on bikes with suspension, but you could presumably make some substitute catchers from wire by yourself, that could function with a suspension as well. xenologer has, in fact, suggested a similar solution.

Otherwise, I do not ride anything but Schwalbes or Continentals with kevlar. When I didn't, I paid dearly with flats.
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Old 03-22-09, 02:18 AM
  #24  
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If you really want to 'try' out the airless foam inserts w/o spending a lot, just buy the Bell ones from Wal*Mart. Comes in different sizes, but it would depend on your local store if they carry them or not. Can always return them for a refund w/o the hassle and cost for shipping and getting an RMA#.
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Old 03-22-09, 06:05 AM
  #25  
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You're not going to have tires that are 100% flat free and cause no other problems. It just doesn't work, even for cars. You need the air cushion in the tire for shock absorption, which means you're at risk for punctures. Take the air out, and you lose a lot of shock absorption, which is hard as hell on the bike.

So I'd really suggest figuring out where you want things to balance out, because the goal of never having a flat tire for the next 30-70 years isn't reasonable. Having a flat a year probably is.
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