The other point, though, is how you look when you get to the office. Do you know how that all works in Copenhagen?

(And I suppose another point is that few buildings in NYC will admit non-folding bikes, and there is usually no secure outdoor parking for them. This is the city Kryptonite won't cover with their bike insurance unless you buy their special New York locks.)

Sure. They have similar requirements, and a similar spread of jobs as New York. Maybe slightly less formal overall (like other US cities), but with more style consciousness overall than most US cities. There are guys in full suits in the summer and winter. I've lived there for a summer a while back and was there for a few days just recently. If you don't ride too hard, it isn't much different than walking, even if you were in the snow. You take off your coat, hat, gloves, scarf, and put them on the coat rack. If you have a red/runny nose and face, you probably take care of that with a handkerchief or whatever. You may straighten yourself up for a half a minute after you use the restroom first thing when you get in, sort of like you would do if you got in by other means. Most people in Copenhagen don't have to be fully dressed up, and that's probably true for NY as well. But they do have to look decent. Some people who dress up do change shoes at the office if it is snowing and nasty on the streets (just like they do if they take the subway/walk here).

Check out http://www.copenhagencyclechic.com/. That had a brutal winter this year in Europe. Go back to posts from that time period, and they are still right at it.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3090/...4e31435f53.jpg

According to that post, the average cyclist speed in the city is 15kph, or 9.3mph.
As yoder notes, it's quite possible to ride at a pace that doesn't generate any
more perspiration than walking would. I'd guess that pace is pretty close to 9.3mph.

I don't know where Mikael got 15 Kph, but he would know. I suppose that might include all stops though, because that is a little slow for their cruising speed. For instance, the Copenhagen "green wave" in which all the lights are green if you bike a certain speed is set to work at about 20 kph (about 12 and a half mph). That seems to be the real speed that Copenhagen cyclists cruise about at, which is why the green wave is set that way and works.

The total average on my Forge is typically 13mph after a couple of weeks of riding, even though my cruising speed is usually around 16mph. The total average is usually a few mph below the moving average.

For everybody else, 30-40 miles in an automobile is routine.

The prices for the Dutch bikes have been grossly inflated for an American market willing to pay exorbitant prices for trendy bicycling fashion statements with little competition.

I was considering buying a top of the line Dutch Gazelle while I lived in Europe and the price was far, far south of $1000. Heck look at the price of the clothes in that NYT article, there is no one in any country wearing clothes that expensive while bike commuting, at least not if they pay have to pay for the clothes.

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/7...terlandqe3.jpg
3 speed Vaterland cost approx $200 new in 1999, added about $100 in accessories.

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/1...vinbikegq0.jpg
3 speed Calvin cost approx $300 new in 2000.

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/7166/zeroseven3pb9.jpg
7 speed Zero Seven cost approx $500 new in 2001.

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/4...ghtsidexj7.jpg
7 speed Ragazzi cost approx $135 new in 2000 plus about $150 in accessories (mostly in additional lighting)

All bought in Germany when the dollar was worth about 35% more.

How can you take the tire off of a bike without removing the wheel? I would think it's impossible, due to the fact that the frame would prevent this.

You think 15 miles on a bike is for "forum nuts"? Not routine? You can't possibly be serious. I have a couple of female friends who've never heard of this forum who do 32 miles a day without even thinking about it, and know parents at my school who commute 15-30 miles every day by bike. Please don't make unreasonable assumptions about what constitutes reasonable daily mileage.

You don't remove the tire, you just take one side off, and pull out the part of the tube you need to work on. Worst/klutziest case, you can pull the whole tube out of the tire (while leaving the tire half on the rim and the tube w/in the frame of the bike) and go over it looking for the leak that way.

does 'dress like a grownup' mean your clothes cost more than your bike?

The average US bike commute by bike is about 7 and a half miles, but the median is around 6. That is a good bit longer than in places where a lot of people actually commute, but it is way below 15 (although the average non-bike commute is about 16 miles). Of course there are many folks who commute that long on bike, but it's not normal even in the relatively abnormal bike commuting population in America. In the Netherlands the average commute is under 3 km. However, the average person in the Netherlands actually rides 2 and half km a day on the bike, while the average American rides 0.1! Cycling is a normal way to get around, not something that generally requires special clothes and gear.

Most of the people here, this article was not who it was written for. The people this article is written for are the same people who have other status symbols. You can own a watch. Timex or Rolex. Both tell time, both have eXs. The people on this forums would say it is a waste of $ to own a Rolex. One is $20 the other is Thousands. Same you can own a VW bug or a 7 series BMW. Both cars, both German made, both have W in the name, not the same.

If someone who needs status buys a Dutch bike and rides it to lunch, or the corner store or some other errand, Great! Otherwise they are driving. I say more power to them. Cycling has some many niches that it needs this. As for price of these bikes, I have wheelsets that cost me that much. Big deal. So what. I enjoy them just as much as my beater that cost me $200. But I like to commute, ride, race, etc. I love all kinds of cycling. To me, this is just another kind. If these Yuppies start riding bikes because they perceive it has status then our cycling community just got bigger. This is just another Hipster vs Fred vs Roadie vs Mtn bike vs Dutchster thread.

this is why i love this forum, everybody gets along. pretty damned sad.

ride what you want, let the other person do the same. does anyone ever take fashion articles seriously? "here's a nice $600.00 t-shirt to go along with your $2000.00 italian loafers."

i gotta get a life.

Thanks. I'll use that figure from now on.

7-1/2 miles + 1 of those bikes + $600 of clothes + 1 NYC summer + 1 NYC winter = bike on craigslist.

The typical Dutch fiets is deservedly famous - a classic roadster. Few foreigners are aware of just how much cycling is a part of the fabric of life in the Netherlands. Rich, middle or poor everyone seems to ride a bike both to work as well as to have some fun!

$600? Did you look at the prices of the "bicycling ensembles" on the fashion plates on display in the NYT slideshow? The jacket alone was priced at over $1000 on six of the eight "bicyclists."

Even the cheapskate with the $370 jacket-vest combo is wearing a $150 tie on a $250 shirt. Don't forget his $394 pants and $350 sneakers. And how 'bout that $235 hat?

Um, I didn't want to look at him again, so I guessed low. :)

The winters in New York are basically a non-issue. It's as bad or worse in Copenhagen and Amsterdam where they do it mass. (Also, if you look at films of how they did it in the old days, almost everyone was indeed wearing a full suit, whereas now it is only the minority who still must dress that way). If you have the right kind of bike, like a Breezer, an old Raleigh 3-speed, a Dutch-type bike, etc. you can get around NY in your normal clothes with no problem the vast majority of the days. If you have to dress up, you can make slight adjustments on those too hot days too that doesn't involve special gear.

Some folks will always want to go with specialized biking gear and racing-type bikes to go faster and farther. (That even happens in places like Copenhagen and Amsterdam, in higher percentages of the general population than in America probably, but only representing about 1% of the cycle traffic there). There's nothing wrong with that of course. If cycling is going to go mainstream, it will be a simpler type of biking experience that makes up the overwhelming bulk of the riders, just like it is wherever in the world cycling for non-recreational purposes is widespread. If there is a general perception that to use a bike for just getting around requires all this equipment and specialization (and maybe there isn't as much of a perception as some claim there is), it is an unnecessary hindrance to cycling becoming more widespread.

That seems generally reasonable, except for the commuting distances. There are people who live and work within a mile or three of work, with no significant hills on the way, but I can only think of two within my circle of acquaintance. (Three if you count jyossarian, who's too experienced a cyclist to have his imagination sparked by this fashion article.)

Everyone else comes in from farther than that, because the apartment rents close to midtown or downtown are insane.

I tried to find some statistics, but all I could determine, without spending a lot of time on it, is that New York City dwellers have the longest average commuting times in the US. I didn't see any mileage figures.

The classic roadster is a fine machine for commuting and utilitarian riding and has been used as such for most of the 20th century in most parts of the world... prior to ww2 cycling was also a widespread form of transportation in North America and people here rode very similar bikes.

People here are now rediscovering what much of the planet did not forget... that a simple well made bicycle can provide one with a very nice mode mode of transportation and with this resurgence in cycling it is inevitable that the fashionistas will hop on the bandwagon.

I ride a 1948 English roadster and it is by far, one of the most comfortable of bikes I have and is ideal for urban commutes of any distance and is my going out on the town bike as I cab wear dressier clothes (aka my nice jeans :)) with no worries of them getting dirty.

Ah, I see now. People have more issues with the expensive clothing that those models wear than the gist of the article that fashionable clothing(more often, less expensive than the ones pictured as with all fashion fluff articles) can be used on cycling, too.


Eh, I'm including enthusiasts in that equation. I'm just saying it's not normal for everyone else. There is nothing wrong with that(on both sides).

The gist of the article was all about high priced trendy fashion statements, with no mention of fashionable clothing that might be reasonable in price or practical for anything related to cycling other than a photo shoot. I didn't see anything in the article or slide show that indicated that there was any alternative to hipster/racer attire other than the featured high priced and impractical foppish attire.

I also have issues with relatively simple and inexpensive bikes being rebranded as fashion statements with price tags to match.

And I bet you don't have to wear $2000 of foppish English Tweeds to look good or be comfortable.

This is cycling in style, IMO.