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-   -   Sunday's incident (https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/537607-sundays-incident.html)

Seamless 05-03-09 08:08 PM


Originally Posted by crhilton
I've been told, rather angrily, that it's only assault if they kill you. Err, actually I think we came to the conclusion that they have to have a weapon in hand. I think it's harassment. It's definitely road rage.

Assault does not (classically) require any physical contact: it can be only verbal; doesn't have to be hate crime, nor harassment, nor does any weapon have to be displayed. Battery requires some (slightest) unpermitted physical contact, again no weapon required.
Assault with a deadly weapon requires a weapon (technically, Woody Allen's soap gub would suffice, but it can be a stick, fist, tire iron, car).
Assault does not require you fear for your life; sufficient that you fear for your health or safety.

If they kill you, it's not assault; it's murder, manslaughter, reckless homicide, of the intentional or unintentional variety.

CCrew 05-03-09 08:26 PM

Just a thought.. she passed crossing a double yellow. I may be mistaken, but in all 50 states that's illegal. Not like she's then one justified to complain.

degnaw 05-03-09 08:38 PM


Originally Posted by CCrew (Post 8848547)
Just a thought.. she passed crossing a double yellow. I may be mistaken, but in all 50 states that's illegal. Not like she's then one justified to complain.

I sure hope you're mistaken, because I'd much rather have a driver cross a double yellow while passing than not. (I don't typically ride on multi-lane arterials or shouldered roads)

prathmann 05-03-09 08:57 PM


Originally Posted by degnaw (Post 8848613)
I sure hope you're mistaken, because I'd much rather have a driver cross a double yellow while passing than not. (I don't typically ride on multi-lane arterials or shouldered roads)

I don't think it's illegal in all states. It is currently in California and there were efforts to have that law changed as well as introducing a 3' passing rule. But so far those efforts have failed and crossing the double yellow is still a violation of the vehicle code even if it is the safest way to pass a cyclist.

aaronechang 05-03-09 09:01 PM

At the end it sounded like the guy said, "This ain't f#@! India. Do you what you gotta do --" before the video cut out. He was pointing toward the sidewalk, so I presume he is trying to say that cyclists should stick to the sidewalk ("do what you gotta do" on the sidewalk)?

What a bunch of tards. If it was me I probably would have put a foot into the side of their car when that lady said, "You're not a f#!@ car." Probably not the smartest thing to do, but I got real pissed off myself even watching the video.

analoguekid 05-03-09 09:08 PM

after much reasoned thought, I've come up with my stock answer to the "you're not a car" accusation...
the conversation would go like this:
"you're not a car."
Me: "Correct! But you ARE a ******bag..."
I like to watch their faces twist as it sinks in...

duke_of_hazard 05-03-09 09:10 PM


Originally Posted by aaronechang (Post 8848762)
At the end it sounded like the guy said, "This ain't f#@! India. Do you what you gotta do --" before the video cut out. He was pointing toward the sidewalk, so I presume he is trying to say that cyclists should stick to the sidewalk ("do what you gotta do" on the sidewalk)?

What a bunch of tards. If it was me I probably would have put a foot into the side of their car when that lady said, "You're not a f#!@ car." Probably not the smartest thing to do, but I got real pissed off myself even watching the video.

I just heard the original video and you are right, that is what he said..

aaronechang 05-03-09 09:15 PM

The funny thing is that the 2 tards in the car were probably slowed down for about 5-10 secs. by the OP but easily wasted at least 5 mins. by stopping, getting out of the car, and yelling something unintelligible.

JoeyBike 05-03-09 09:38 PM


Originally Posted by aaronechang (Post 8848762)
If it was me I probably would have put a foot into the side of their car when that lady said, "You're not a f#!@ car."

I am telling the truth here. Ask any female. With her window rolled down she is a prime candidate for the "C" word preceded by "stoopid" or "ugly" or "effing". Those two words will make her cry more than if you beat up her car with a sledgehammer and an axe then set it on fire. I can say those words with complete disdain too, and not a trace of hostility in my voice. Better than a jack-boot to her face.

Shoot, you had enough time to say "Sober up you ugly C" with a huge smile on your face, like she was a source of humor for you too.

Keep that in mind. Then you will always have something to say 50 percent of the time at least!

Enjoy!

PS: You remind me of a story from long ago when I was in college. Same sort of scenario with a bud of mine who was a serious action freak and a rugby player on the Louisiana state rugby team. The boyfriend jumps out of the car, and while my friend is beating him silly, the woman is screaming and cussing him. He turns to the gal and says "Shut up and wait your turn." What a nice fantasy for your altercation.

Sirrus Rider 05-03-09 09:59 PM


Originally Posted by JoeyBike (Post 8848977)
I am telling the truth here. Ask any female. With her window rolled down she is a prime candidate for the "C" word preceded by "stoopid" or "ugly" or "effing". Those two words will make her cry more than if you beat up her car with a sledgehammer and an axe then set it on fire. I can say those words with complete disdain too, and not a trace of hostility in my voice. Better than a jack-boot to her face.

Shoot, you had enough time to say "Sober up you ugly C" with a huge smile on your face, like she was a source of humor for you too.

Keep that in mind. Then you will always have something to say 50 percent of the time at least!

Enjoy!

PS: You remind me of a story from long ago when I was in college. Same sort of scenario with a bud of mine who was a serious action freak and a rugby player on the Louisiana state rugby team. The boyfriend jumps out of the car, and while my friend is beating him silly, the woman is screaming and cussing him. He turns to the gal and says "Shut up and wait your turn." What a nice fantasy for your altercation.

I like it! :D:thumb::love:

mds0725 05-03-09 10:17 PM

The San Francisco Bicycle Coalition distributes printed sheets that cite the section of the California Vehicle Code that provides that bikes are to ride on the road and are entitled to take the lane. The theory is that some people just need to be educated about how bikes are permitted and required to behave on the roads. Not that the idiot driver in your video was in the mood to be educated, but some people get angry at bikes because they think bikes are behaving illegally, and some of those angry people calm down a bit when they realize that the cyclist was doing what he or she was supposed to do.

subclavius 05-03-09 10:30 PM

They could still be guilty of aggressive driving, and your state might have a 3 foot passing rule. At the very least, it would be worth the effort for the woman to understand that bikes have the same right to the road as motorized vehicles. If it was me, I wouldn't have asked "what is the problem?" because we all know what her (and her boyfriend's) problem is, they think cars have an inalienable right to the road.

subclavius 05-03-09 10:37 PM

Oh, and by the way, now I'm buying an Air Zound. I've thought about it for the past year, this decides it. Next year, helmet cam.

IB Boyd 05-03-09 10:53 PM

Dont know about Illinois, but CA has some severe penalties for road rage. If a motorist gets that on his record, he can kiss his insurance goodbye. I thought the OP maintained his composure well, which would be important if he wanted to present the video to the fuzz.

The Human Car 05-04-09 05:09 AM

One of my favorite comebacks goes along the lines of: "Let's call the police and you can tell them about how I should be riding illegally on the sidewalk and I'll tell them how you are trying to take the law into your own hands and we'll see who goes off to jail." They will always back down.

rumrunn6 05-04-09 07:23 AM

You looked like you were wandering into the middle of the lane unnecessarily. Plus you were approaching a dangerous change in lane line painting. You would have done better to have been in a lower gear so that you were cycling straighter and more predictable. Also, confronting a woman driver with a male passenger is dangerous because you invoke the testosterone protection mechanism. Remember drivers blow their horn at each other all the time - for good and also unjustified reasons - you don't see everyone yelling at each other and getting out of the car to confront each other. You gotta learn to chill out and just take the horns as they come. Why are you riding with a helmet cam anyway?

apricissimus 05-04-09 07:30 AM


Originally Posted by rumrunn6 (Post 8850452)
You looked like you were wandering into the middle of the lane unnecessarily.

Only the OP (and other locals in the area) knows what's necessary and what's not on that particular road. It's not for us to judge his style, not knowing the conditions.

Originally Posted by rumrunn6 (Post 8850452)
You would have done better to have been in a lower gear so that you were cycling straighter and more predictable.

Why does a lower gear mean a straighter line? In any case, it's not clear that he wasn't riding in a straight line. Don't confuse head/camera movements with bike movement.

Originally Posted by rumrunn6 (Post 8850452)
Also, confronting a woman driver with a male passenger is dangerous because you invoke the testosterone protection mechanism. Remember drivers blow their horn at each other all the time - for good and also unjustified reasons - you don't see everyone yelling at each other and getting out of the car to confront each other. You gotta learn to chill out and just take the horns as they come.

I think the OP acted responsibly. He was not aggressive to the driver.

Originally Posted by rumrunn6 (Post 8850452)
Why are you riding with a helmet cam anyway?

Is there something wrong with that?

rumrunn6 05-04-09 07:34 AM

Honestly, he sounds like a passive aggressive pu**y looking for trouble. Driving up to her open window to confront her was not responsible. They blew their horn. So what? Move on. Look at his video again and listen to his breathing. He was far from the shoulder and struggling.

apricissimus 05-04-09 07:40 AM


Originally Posted by rumrunn6 (Post 8850510)
Honestly, he sounds like a passive aggressive pu**y looking for trouble.

Wow, wasn't expecting that. To me it seemed like he was minding his business until someone tried to unnecessarily hassle him.

rumrunn6 05-04-09 07:47 AM

Sorry, I call 'em like I see 'em.

I think The Duke said that in one of his movies.

ChipSeal 05-04-09 08:45 AM


Originally Posted by analoguekid (Post 8848806)
after much reasoned thought, I've come up with my stock answer to the "you're not a car" accusation...
the conversation would go like this:
"you're not a car."
Me: "Correct! But you ARE a ******bag..."
I like to watch their faces twist as it sinks in...

Motorist; "You're not a car!"

Me; "You're not a car either! :D"

mikepop 05-04-09 11:37 AM


Originally Posted by CCrew (Post 8848547)
Just a thought.. she passed crossing a double yellow. I may be mistaken, but in all 50 states that's illegal. Not like she's then one justified to complain.

You are mistaken. That is not illegal in Maine. A car may cross the double yellow line to pass a bicycle provided it is safe to do so.

making 05-04-09 12:07 PM

which ever side the soild yellow stripe is on means you cant cross the middle from that side. No matter what you are passing from a donkey to a bike to a car, cant cross the soild yellow.

onnestabe 05-04-09 12:24 PM

I think you misread the situation. She was behind you when she honked, so maybe she just liked what she saw?

making 05-04-09 12:31 PM


Originally Posted by onnestabe (Post 8852591)
I think you misread the situation. She was behind you when she honked, so maybe she just liked what she saw?

Happens to me all, I mean all, the time. That is why her BF was so angry.


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