PlatyPius

I can buy a mechanical, "wind-up" watch, which is much more complex than a shifter, for less than a set of Shimano STIs. In fact, the computer I'm using right now (AMD dual-core 5400, 3GB DDR2, 320GB HDD, etc) cost less new than the wholesale cost of a set of Dura Ace STIs. Last Years.

Something needs to happen with prices. $500 retail for a set of shifters for a bicycle "the simplest vehicle on Earth", is just wrong. The tires on my bike shouldn't cost more than the tires on my car. A cyclometer shouldn't cost more than the ECM in my car.

For further perspective, you could buy an entire 2009 Fuji Newest 4.0 (which has DT shifters) for the full retail cost of a set of Ultegra STIs.

tarwheel 

The answer has been provided many times already in this thread. Simply buy downtube or bar-end shifters. It's not rocket science. DT or BE shifters are inexpensive, easy to use and will last forever. It seems that some cyclists have never used anything other than STI -- sort of like someone who never learned to drive with a stickshift -- and don't think there are reasonable alternatives. But there are.

Also, for all the folks complaining about bike component/clothes prices, the simplest solution is just not to buy the expensive stuff -- or wait for it to go on sale. If cyclists quit buy the expensive stuff, the manufacturers will either cut costs or quit making it. Problem solved.

Hydrated

I wholehearedly agree. But Shimano has fixed the problem of brifters costing $500 for a set. They rolled out their new Dura Ace electronic shifting system. Now THAT is a solution looking for a problem to solve! But if you're willing to pay $3000 over what a mechanical Dura Ace set costs... you too can have that little "fwip-fwip" sound when you shift!

This is my solution. I just keep my eyes open for a deal. For example, I snagged my Shimano XTR long cage rear derailleur when my LBS couldn't get rid of a Rapid-Rise model that they had on the shelf... I gave them $40 for it. Brand new.

JoeyBike

Like most pro racing paraphernalia, you will know you need them when someone gives them to you for free along with a paycheck, a jersey, and hat all bearing the same logo.

Shifters combined with brake levers on road bikes were invented for one reason - so when you are planning a breakaway, the guys behind you do not get cued in advance by seeing your hand reaching for a downtube shift lever. It gives you a fraction of a second advantage for your breakaway. Period.

Are you doing that? Are you winning prize money? How about crashing? EVERY TIME you crash your road bike, you will likely trash one brake lever. You will NEVER trash a downtube shifter. And if you are not crashing a couple of times a year, you probably aren't winning any races either.

ATB riders have different needs. Even a novice rider will gain benefit from shifters and brake levers within easy finger reach. Wannabe roadies - you pay for lazyness and style.

tjspiel

Regardless of why they were originally invented, STIs have benefits for the non-racer as well. If downtube shifters were so great, why do you think stem shifters became so popular back in the late 70's and early 80's? Because people like having the shifters closer to where they keep their hands. I also believe that's one reason for the rise in MTBs at the expense of the road bike, - more convenient shifting.

And whether intended or not, another benefit of STI shifters are the nice fat hoods. I was never as comfortable on the hood of standard brake lever as I am on an STI lever. Being able to shift from there is sweet whether you're racing or not.

Yes, the mechanism is more complex, but it's really just a glorified trigger shifter. And as far as expense goes, people are probably riding around with iPods that cost nearly as much and will replace in two years.

Hirohsima

The two things you mention are quite possibly two of the most common consumer items in the US (apart from TV's) and almost everybody has one or more of them. When you are selling milliions of watches and computers, sure you can sell them for cheaper.

Others have also mentioned that since people are willing to pay $500 for a set of brifters (myself included) then they will keep charging it.

You also can't apply normal consumer item logic to bikes. There are just not enough people buying high-end parts and bikes to allow makers to recoup their R&D costs and make a profit. Look at the American public at large (pun intended), you think even 5% of them ride?

Plus you can't use DA shifters as the price point example, you should at least be fair and use Sora or Tiagra. Its like asking why Ferrari's cost so bloddy much,.... they do the same thing as a Fiat and are owned by the same company.

JoeyBike

I do have nice, fat hood envy I will admit!

As for convenient shifting, certainly, no argument. But you gotta pay and pay and pay. You pay up front. You pay when your bike falls over and breaks one, and you pay when they quickly wear beyond eensie, teensie tolerances and stop working.

I drove a standard transmission car for 15 years. Cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, cheap to repair, cheap to replace. Works GREAT! Did I actually THINK about shifting the thing? No. Do I actually THINK about my downtube shifters? Nope. When my hand leaves the handlebar and my arm relaxes naturally and floats downward - like magic - there is the shift lever. In dowtown traffic I shift like a NASCAR driver. Not crazy about one hand leaving the bars (and brakes) but I never really think about it while it is happening. The bike just shifts. I don't use friction for the rear derailleur, that is indexed. My front derailleur is friction - I use that one much less and can always trim the front derailleur juuuuust right with a downtube (or bar-end) shifter. Most roadie brifters are a pain in that department.

It's a matter of taste. I like long lasting, dependable things that just work and work. Some prefer high performance and ultimate convenience of use things and live with the high price, maintenance costs and finiky performance. For some, cheaper is better. My shifters are high end downtube shifters BTW. Cheap by comparison, but they didn't seem cheap when I was paying for them.

The OP was complaining about costs. I think he got lots of good responses from both sides! Gotta love BF sometimes!

tjspiel

I do agree that indexed shifting on the front rings (especially a double) creates a problem where there shouldn't be one.

I spent most of 2007 commuting with downtube shifters along with a good chunk of last winter. Though I prefer STIs, downtubes don't cause me any real difficulty, probably because I ride in the drops a lot anyway. The one advantage they have in terms of shifting (aside from trim on the front rings) is that they're easy to work with gloves. I have a hard time with gloves and STI paddles. Sora is OK but my 105s are a challenge.

I still have and prefer a manual transmission on cars, - control freak.

PlatyPius

For the record, I'm riding a 10 year old pair of Campy Veloce brifters that have been beat, scraped, abused, and used for thousands of miles. They still work fine - better than new Shimano, actually.

JoeyBike

That is impressive. I'm guessing that OP complaining about price is not shopping the Campy isle. Nor the Dura-Ace isle for that matter. I am confident that the expensive stuff works and lasts. 10 years tho - that's awesome.

Jquest

If you're mechanically inclined...you can fix anything.
https://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830612179.pdf

PlatyPius

Expensive?

Veloce is in the middle-low end of Campy's line up. I think they retailed for about $119 when I bought them.

modernjess

Expensive. Yes. So what? They get what the market will bear.

As guy who rides 80% of my miles on a single speed bike I will admit I dearly love the Dura Ace brifters on my road bike. I cant' imagine them being any better, They've gone thousands and thousands of miles and they still perform flawlessly, worth every penny.

JoeyBike

You can still find them new for $150 online without much trouble. Campy 10 speed bar-ends go for the same.

If you love them for 10 years, then I learned something new today. Is this your most ridden bike? I just ask because this is the commuting forum. Maybe you have trashed three commuting bikes in 10 years and ride the Campy every other weekend with the club? My $99 lawnmower lasted 10 years. Sounds great, but mowing my grass takes 10 minutes once a week for about 30 weeks a year. So my lawnmower actually gets used 50 hours (2 whole days) before it croaks!

Elderberry

I demo'd the electronic DA on a trainer when the Shimano rep came to the shop. The "fwip-fwip" was mesmerizing.

PlatyPius

The Veloce shifters have been on 4 different bikes. My guesstimate for mileage would be in the 20,000 mile range. No, not my most-ridden bike.

HardyWeinberg

Could also try to get them banned:

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/06/sp...pagewanted=all

JoeyBike

Maybe I need to reconsider my position then.

tatfiend 

Unfortunately I would. The 10x MSRP markup versus parts & labor production cost was for a fairly expensive printer at the time, Diablo daisywheel. For some auto parts such as gaskets, seals etc I would expect it to be closer to 100x, particularly for those not available from a second source such as NAPA.

Doohickie

I've never owned a bike with brifters. In fact the vast majority of my bikes have friction shifters.

PlatyPius

Don't get me wrong.... I have 2 bikes with bar ends and 2 bikes with downtube shifters also. But the Campy ErgoLevers blow Shimano STIs away. If it were between barends and STIs, yeah...it would be close. Campy and barends, though....

With 2007 and previous Campy levers, you can "dump the cassette" with one shift - from big cog to small, or anywhere in between. The front shifter is not indexed - it is ratcheting; no crappy FD shifting/alignment like with Shimano. The brake levers do not shift - the levers behind the brake lever and the thumb levers do. You can hold the shift lever in your hand, close to the bar if you so choose. Lastly, with Campy - if you knock your wheel out of true or break a spoke, you can release/open up the brake caliper from the lever without moving your hands from the shifter/brake lever and keep on riding. (I've used that feature myself a couple of times)

One more thing.... the toothed cog that provides the gear indexing and the springs are easily replaceable and readily available; Campy brifters are completely serviceable by just about anyone.

Still something to be said for SunTour bar ends, though.

mesasone

30-35 mph? Are you a world class cyclist or just full of ****?

JoeyBike

Thanks for all the info. I am considering building a new(ish) road bike and might give Campy levers a try. Now, if I can just keep from crashing and breaking them

mechanicalron

I have ultegra shifters that are going on 7 years old now and I like them. I take my bike down trails and foot paths all the time and love having the shifters and breaks in my hands. The one problem you may have is the grease that shimano puts in the ratcheting parts gets hard if you put your bike up for the winter or don't ride it for some time. You can fix that with a drop or two of teflon and work it in. They are sort of hard to break and tend to be well made.

Barrettscv 

Ultegra brifters are clearly tougher than 105 brifters. The ratcheting parts on the 105 are plastic and can be broken if too much force is applied.

Michael