interesting thread...made me think some more about my next commute bike.

I think i've decided to start with a cyclocross bike, like the surly crosscheck. I'm thinking I'd like the buy the frame and parts and build it myself so I can get exactly what I want, plus it'll be fun!

so I'm thinking:
- surly crosscheck
- internal geared hub (My commute is flat, I rarely shift anyway, but not ready to go fixed or SS yet)
- maybe front disc
- drop bars? (never ridden drops but I showed the guy at the LBS my most comfortable hand positions on my flat bar/barends and he said "that's a drop bar position")
- All eyelets and stuff for rear and front fenders and racks.

Those are the things that I think are important to me. I like the simplicity of the internal geared hub, but also giving 7 or 8 speeds would be more than enough. Like I said, i don't shift. I havn't shifted for about 2 weeks, and then I only shifted because I was wearing out the gear I was using. (went from 42x13 to 38x11)

So basically just a self-built crosscheck but with an internally geared hub, and maybe a mechanical front disc. I think it'd serve my purposes.

When you have an internally geared rear hub, do you normally have only one chainring up front, or do people put on double or triples?

How about an internal rear hub like a Nexus? No derailleur to hit on something and mess up. This should go well on a hybrid type bike.

My ultimate commuter is a work in progress, but it is getting pretty close. I live in the midwest where it is pretty flat, but we do get cold, inclement weather:

Surly CrossCheck frame (steel): I love the versatility of this frame for commuting.

Surly fixed/free hub (700c wheels): I'm currently just using a fixed cog, but for winter will put a larger (more teeth) freewheel on the other side.

Drop bars and old fashion (non-aero) drop bar levers to work Avid Shorty cantilever brakes (front and rear).

Wide SKS fenders.

Tires depend on season: slicks most of the year, but cyclocross tires for winter (haven't yet tried studded)

Rear rack and pannier

I'm begging my wife to get a Shimano DH-3N70 generator hub and Lumotec front head lamp for me as a Christmas present, and from what I can tell this should fly.

This makes for a very fun and efficient, yet practical and low maintenance commuter.

I love seeing the variety of commuter bikes out there-- so many cool ways to set things up!

Have looked at that too... what is the fattest tire you can ride on that?

In my opinion, the best commuting/city bicycle is a touring bike, like the venerable 520, or a Bruce Gordon, or something similar.

Bike is then fitted out with:

- First-rate racks

- Quality panniers, front and rear

- Permanent fenders

- Handlebar bag for knick knacks, keys, wallet, etc.

- Lights (I prefer battery-powered and bright, but feel free to insert your favorite)

- Slightly thinner than stock tires for better speed

- A trailer, if you want it.


I think there's no good competition against a touring bike for commuting or utility purposes. For one thing, you can carry a *lot* on a touring bike, and a ridiculous amount if you combine the panniers with a trailer. That makes the bike practical not just for commuting-- which usually doesn't call for large loads, but may if you're a student or someone who carries a lot back and forth-- but for grocery shopping as well.

Then you've got the drop bars and thinner tires for fast riding, when you need it.

I ride a 2003 Jamis Coda Comp with lights, rear rack and panniers. It is essentially a road bike with flat bars, but some folks call it an urban bike (whatever). I commute through the eastern half of Washington, DC between Maryland and Virginia. I find the flat bars easier to negotiate potholes (sometimes one has to bunny hop them) and curbs. I suppose if I had a rural commute, a drop-bar bike would be more to my liking. I have thought of putting mtn. bike bar ends on for the non-urban part of my commute, but I don't think it's worth it at the moment.

The Jamis is steel, very comfortable, speedy, and pretty. I know, I know, it's the rider that makes the ride, not the bike. But the first day I got my Jamis, I knocked 10 minutes off of my 12 mile commute from my former commuter-a 1986 Specialized Stumpjumper (40 lbs of 1980s really cool mountain bike). I've had the Jamis for almost 2 years and I have no complaints whatsoever. I look forward to riding it!

Look at the Town and Country section at http://www.koga.com/uk/. I think they would qualify as good commuter bikes. Take a look at the Commuter Bike Pics thread. You'll see that everyone has different need.

Mine is a tourer with full fenders (with mudflap on front), 700*32c, rack, pannier and plenty of lights.

My two "citybikes" / commuters, whatever:

My favorite:

Old School Mongoose ATB (I think it was the first ATB they made) shiny chrome w/ straight toptube.

Moustache bars w/ non aero Shimano 600 levers.
Stem that gets the bars high enough.
Handbuilt narrow dbl walled rim F. Wheel (soon to be replaced with generator hub wheel).
Single speed (46tx17t)
Handbuilt narrow dbl walled rim R. Wheel with Suzue ProMax flipflop hub.
25 year old Sugino road cranks w/ 20 year old 1/8th BMX chainring.
Brooks B17 Saddle.
Geax Streetrunner 26x1.25 tires (excellent for city use).
Carradice saddlebag.
Nitto front bag support.
Wicker basket.
Medium width SKS 700 fenders (the 700c fenders are longer giving me more coverage than the 26")

I love this bike. Its very sporty and comfortable and suprisingly, not too heavy. Some of those older ATB's (from the 80s) make great commuters. Set them up with comfortable HB's (anything but flat bars), some nice smooth small dense tires (1.25-1.6) (75-100PSI) and you're good to go.

#2: My Touring bike that gets used as a commuter a lot as well.
Fuji touring frame from the 80's.
Phil Wood 8spd touring cassette hubs
Sugino AT cranks
Ancient Suntour bar end shifters.
Nitto Technomic Stem (really up there)
Nitto drop bars (45cm)
Brooks B17 Saddle.
Tubus Cargo Rack
Carradice Bike Bureau (I really can't say enough good things about this bag, perfect for commuting).
SKS medium width fenders.
Continental 700x28 tires (sometimes I like a 32 though)



My advice for commuters:

Stay as far away from 9speed anything. Its fragile, its finnicky, it wears out quickly, its expensive.

Stay away from STI, too much plastic, too many moving parts, too fragile, too expensive.

Don't wear messenger bags, try to carry weight on your bikes, not you. Ditch that milk crate attatched to your rack, get a real commuter rig (Carradice Bike Bureau or saddle bag, panniers, anything!

Good raingear; Burley jackets/pants (don't bother with the "breathable" stuff, it doesn't work and if it does it doesn't last. I like raincapes myself, Carradice makes a few nice ones.

Don't be afraid of derailleurs, they work. If properly cared for they last a long time (as long as they're not 9speed). 3x8 is the most anyone really needs, most of us could get by with 2x5 or 3x5.

If you go singlespeed/fixed start with an absurdly low gear and work up. You're not a track maniac, you have to start and stop a lot.

Fenders. Real ones, not clip on BS, permnament bolt on fenders. Don't take them off in the summer.

Don't cheap out on tires. If they're less than $20 they will; look like crap, get tons of flats, seat terribly, crank/split.

Get a stem/bar combination that gets you up there (not bolt upright) so you can see ahead without craning your neck. If its drop bars, I like to try to get the tops of the bars level w/ the saddle or maybe a little higher. Most stems can't do this. The Nitto Technomic can.

-nate.

I commute on my Salvation Army bike, a Centurion Accordo with some mods.

But if I was building up a dream commuter bike, it would a Surly Cross Check with some moustache bars running a 1x9 drivetrain (42t front with a mtn cassette in the rear).

The Cross Check is comfortable yet still faster handling than a touring frame. Plus all decals are removable and the paint job is just a simple one color so it won't look too fancy.

The ultimate commuter for me would be an '02 Alpe D' Huez. customized with a B-17 saddle, 20w halogen rechargeable and (soon!) Barley saddlebag. :D

I still don't understand how knobby tires help you on paved surfaces. I ride slick tires year round here in wet wet wet Portalnd OR and have never had a problem of slipping while cornering. Knobs make cornering worse because theres not enough rubber on the road and you skitter around highspeed curves. I always though knobs were for digging into soft eart to gain traction. Anybody know the actual science behind this?

Another thing, number of gears. You don't need big numbers (3x9, 3x10 etc.), you need RANGE.

You can get by with a double if your big ring is like a 50 tooth and your little ring is a 36 or so. Most non indexed (or STI) shifter/derailleur combos can do a 14 (or more!) tooth jump. A rear derailleur that can handle a freewheel with a large largest cog (30 or 32) helps too. The 9 speed cogsets just give you more in between gears so you can dial in that perfect cadence, but with most 3x7 systems you shouldn't have a problem finding a good cadence. If you can get a 7or8spd 12-32tooth cogset you'd be better off than getting the same range in 9spd because its going to last a lot longer and be cheaper to replace when needed. I work in a shop and its pretty much a guarantee that if a 2or3x9 bike is in the stand it needs much of its drivetrain replaced, where as I'll put up an old 2or3x6or7or8 bike in the stand and it just needs to be cleaned/adjusted.

You can only have multiple chainrings if you have a way to take up the slack in the chain. (Usually it's done by a rear derailleur.) For this reason, internally-geared-hub bikes almost never have a front derailleur.

I'm convinced that the person who loves knobbies on pavement is getting some good placebo effect out of them. ;). However, as far as I know there is no science (in the sense of scientific research) surrounding this. All of our evidence is based on our thoughts (logic? belief?) and our anecdotal evidence.

There is Sheldon Brown's 63-speed featuring a SA AW-3: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/otb.html
You could probably use a single speed chain tensioner if you wanted to run multiple chainrings.

There's no point to knobbies on pavement, wet or dry. I don't know of any research that demonstrates it, but traction on pavement is determined by the amount of rubber in contact with the road surface. That surface is hard so the tire will deform around it and bring lots of rubber into contact with the slightly uneven road surface. I suppose on somethnig like a milled surface (like when they're resurfacing the road), knobbies could be more effective.

In the dirt, the surface is soft and shiftable, so the knobs dig in and provide positive traction in both the horizontal and vertical planes (as the sides of the knobs press against the dirt "wall").

If you want to increase traction on pavement, you can go with wider tires or lower pressure to increase the size of your contact patch (wider is probably better as less deformation will prevent pinch flats and provide lower rolling resistance--I think, RR isn't really well studied or understood). Knobbies only decrease the amount of rubber in contact with that non-deformable surface.

I'm need to replace my Kona that was totaled this monday.
Been searching hard all week and I think I may get me a Gary Fisher Tassajara.
My commute is kinda rough (besides getting hit by cars). ;) I have lots of pavement, lots of sidewalks, a little dirt/mud/grass, and curbs to deal with. All in about 10 miles. So i think an actual mountain bike with wider tires may cover all bases a little better. And it has rack eyelets too. Now i just need to find some fenders for it. It also has the option of disc brakes, but i don't really see the necessity for them especially since i don't have to commute everyday which means unless I get caught in the rain my rides are pretty dry and flat in Houston.

Speaking of slick tires. What are peoples favorite slick tires to put on ATBs to make them more street worthy? I've got some GEAX StreetRunners in 1.25 (they go to 100PSI) and I'm really happy with them so far. Cheap ($20), effective, sporty, no flats yet (put them on sometime in the summer).

At the shop I work at we sell a lot of overhauled bikes. Everybody wants road bikes/hybrids so we're constantly out of them but I've taken to streeting up old ATBs by adding said GEAX Streetrunners and bars with rise and sweep (either WALD 3speed bars or Nitto Promenades or the like). They sell like hotcakes and people seem to be really happy with them, especially small people that can't find decent small road bikes. Small ATBs are easier to find. They're also much easier to fit full fenders on because of the extreme clearance allowed by the 1.25 tires.

So, if you've got an old (or new) ATB that will never see dirt again (or never did), do yourself a favor, switch out those pointless flatbars and get some sleek tires, add some fenders, a rack and hit the town. While your at it, take off those 175mm cranks and replace them w/ 170's, especially if they have BioPace chainrings.

-nate.

As for knobbies on pavement, I'm with you, and Sheldon Brown is too. I'm not going to repeat his analysis, which I agree with.

As for durability of drivetrains, unless you know how many miles and what conditions they have been through, your shop exposure isn't much of an indicator. It could be the people with nine-speed cassettes are doing three times the mileage of people with seven-speed ones so that's why they're wearing out more quickly. Or not. Does anyone have more facts about durability of seven vs. nine speed drivetrains? I would think maintenance, conditions during use, and the original materials and manufacturing quality would be the primary factors determining the lifespan of drivetrain components, not the number of cogs on the cassette.

Take this for what it's worth but my lbs told me that the 9speed cogs are thinner so they wear more quickly. I had mine replaced by them at 1500 miles cause it sounded like hell. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=a
As for durability of drivetrains, unless you know how many miles and what conditions they have been through, your shop exposure isn't much of an indicator. It could be the people with nine-speed cassettes are doing three times the mileage of people with seven-speed ones so that's why they're wearing out more quickly. Or not. Does anyone have more facts about durability of seven vs. nine speed drivetrains? I would think maintenance, conditions during use, and the original materials and manufacturing quality would be the primary factors determining the lifespan of drivetrain components, not the number of cogs on the cassette.[/QUOTE]

9 speed cassettes, chains, and chainrings are thinner and therefore wear faster as there's less to wear away. I've noticed derailleurs and shifters getting finnicky earlier than non-9speed stuff. In my opinion its just too many gears to cram into such a narrow space. To get the extra cog to fit they had to make everything a lot more delicate.

As for my shop experience not being a proper statistical scientific gauge, you are right. But EVERY 9 speed bike I've had in for a tuneup/overhaul has had to have much of its drivetrain replaced. These bikes are all from the last couple years but only a fraction of the non 9 speed bikes need any replacement.

I think Bianchi made a big mistake in making their new "city bike" the Castro Valley a 1x9. 9 speed is fine for racers that rarely ride in wet/grimy conditions and have their stuff replaced often but for us daily all-weather conditions we don't want to be wearing our chainrings/chains/cogs out every 6 months.

Definitely a touring bike with 700x35c tires, a 53-39-26 crank, Avid disc brakes, SKS fenders, and a Marzochi MX Comp air and coil shock fork.

53's pretty steep for a touring rig. I wouldn't go more than a 48/50, if the bike is being built, a Sugino XD crankset is cheap, light, well made and is geared right for a touring/commuting bike. It's also a 110/74 BCD, so chainwheels are easy to find. The 53/39 cranksets are usually 130, so 38 is the smallest middle ring you can put on it.

I'm a firm believer in the a fixed gear road bike being the ultimate city commuter. But then again that's just me. Having your rear wheel fixed gives you faster and multiple ways to brake. In city you come in contact with random puddles that'll wet your rim just enough to slow or make braking impossible (its happened to me before), and when you're freewheeling you're kinda in a bit of trouble.

Also to in slick conditions you have a direct link to your rear wheel allowing you to compensate and avoid fishtailing or other terrible things.

Also most cities are rather flat (except Los Angeles for some reason, ah well) so having only one gear doesn't pose much of a problem.

Oh and lets not forget sex appeal...

I'd get a Cross Check or Steamroller frame and build it up to look old school. The Surly frames are so versatile that you can make them funky looking yet still maintaining a practical level of commuting function. I would build the Cross Check up as a 1x9 with a 42t in the front and a mountain cassette in the rear.

I like this Cross Check:
http://momovelo.com/images/bub/783.jpg
http://momovelo.com/images/momo/1080.jpg

This Steamroller build is sweet too:
http://momovelo.com/images/bub/g2.jpg
http://momovelo.com/images/bub/g8.jpg

nice bikes!

Aw... man, I can't see the bike porn. Can you post the URL's to those Surly's?

I think the best commuter I own is my Jamis Aurora. It has fenders, rear rack with a big blinkie bolted on to it, Cateye head light on the front, nice somewhat up right riding position, Panaracer Pasela 28's with kevlar belt, thorn proof tubes, deore 48-36-25 crank, NOS deore xt brakes. I used that Nashbar backpack/pannier thing for school (because I leave the bike outside) and my axiom panniers for work where I can leave it inside. The 28's let me go fast but still go off road if the shoulder is blocked with people making rights. Just worked perfect for what I needed.