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Duno Hub Wheel Choices

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Duno Hub Wheel Choices

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Old 10-24-09, 08:47 PM
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Duno Hub Wheel Choices

I think I am going to give it a try, but don't want to break the bank. I don't know much about wheels. Will be going on my CrossCheck, so I want something sturdy and can handle loaded touring, too. Here is what I have come across:

36 spoke sounds good and the price is about right: http://www.velo-orange.com/shdyhubwh.html

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/light...no.html#wheels
http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...s.php?id=31819
Suntour wheel: http://www.rivbike.com/products/list...n#product=none
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Old 10-24-09, 11:01 PM
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The Rivendell wheel has a non-eyeletted rim. No thanks.
The Universal Cycles wheel uses db spokes. No thanks.

I think the Alfine hub is better than the 3N72, but don't quote me on it. If that's the case, then the Harris wheel is better than the VO wheel. But either one is a really good choice.
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Old 10-25-09, 12:23 AM
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Well let's see:

All four use DT Swiss spokes, but the Universal and Harris are listed as double-butted, which is considered to be stronger.

The VO and Harris wheels use Sun CR-18 rims, an eyeleted, non-welded rim. While I have no preference in the eyeleted/non-eyeleted discussion, the non-welded rim is a bit weaker.

The VO lists as 36 spoke, but the Harris doesn't, the rim is available in both 32 and 36 spoke varieties, with a 36 spoke rim being stronger

The Universal wheel is a Velocity Dyad, a welded, non-eyeleted rim, the widest of the listed rims, with a fairly deep section. It is listed as Velocity's "touring rim". This rim is probably every bit as strong in 32 spoke as the Sun is in 36.

The Riv wheel is Velocity's Twin Hollow, their budget rim. It's the narrowest, shallowest of the bunch and a single wall design. It's probably the weakest of the bunch.

Then we have the hubs: Two (Universal and Harris) use an Alfine hub. I believe Alfine is the top of the line Shimano dyno hub. One uses a Shimano DH-3, which would be a step below the Alfine. Then there is the Sun Tour, a budget hub. You'll probably suffer a bit more drag using the two non-Alfine hubs, the bearings may not be sealed quite as well as the Alfine, requiring more frequent packing of the bearings in wet or dusty conditions.

So, personally I'd choose the Universal Alfine/Dyad build. However, if you can confirm the the Harris Alfine/Sun CR-18 is a 36 spoke rim, I'd consider that to be a decent alternative.
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Old 10-25-09, 09:32 AM
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If you're looking at 32H wheels from universal, I'd go for the one that lists for $100 less and is also in stock:

http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...s.php?id=31840

I am so satisfied w/ the lack of difference between my bottom of the line shimano dynamo hub and the XT hub it replaced that I wouldn't sweat the performance of any dyno hub from them, whether it's their A choice, A1 choice, or D choice.

Universal price-matches so if you find their stuff priced lower elsewhere, they will match it (I've found some fly-by-night electronic shops. All else equal you could then compare shipping speed, which is really fast from Universal to me but might not be as fast to you.
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Old 10-25-09, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by CliftonGK1 View Post
The Rivendell wheel has a non-eyeletted rim. No thanks.
The Universal Cycles wheel uses db spokes. No thanks.

I think the Alfine hub is better than the 3N72, but don't quote me on it. If that's the case, then the Harris wheel is better than the VO wheel. But either one is a really good choice.
The Alfine DH-S501 is almost totally identical to the DH-3N72. In fact most parts are listed as "same part" in the interchangeability scheme.

All the new Shimano high end dynamo hubs like the Alfine S501, 3N72, 3N80, T-660, T-665 (and variants like 3D72 and 2N80) etc. all share the same basic alu-rotor (the rotating part that generates current). Their differences are mainly in weight (alu or steel axle, weight of hub shell), and whether they use v-brake, disc brake, comes in black etc.
According to the German magazine "Aktive Radfahren" who did a major dynamo hub test in February this year, they all measure exactly the same when it comes to resistance, how much current they deliver etc.

So if you want light weight, choose the 3N80, if you want strong and sturdy choose the 3N72, if you want to match your Alfine IGH, get the S501 etc.

I think Shimano has introduced at least 6 new high end dynamo hubs this year, including the bizarre T-708 with oversize axle, and now has more than 22 dynamo hub variants (excluding color and spoke hole number variants).
But all their high-end dynamo hubs are more or less identical internally, so one can choose the price point and features one wants without being afraid of getting dynamo hub less good than the others.

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Old 10-25-09, 05:38 PM
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interested -- great info on the Shimano line of dynos. Thanx!
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Old 10-25-09, 08:04 PM
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I have a dynamo hub built with the 3D71 and Delgado Rim with 32 spokes. It has been everything that I had hoped and dreamed it would be in a wheel. For that price point between those choices I would jump on that wheel. If not the Delgado then I would actually go for the Dyad wheel. Any of these choices can't be a bad choice.
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Old 10-25-09, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by interested View Post
I think Shimano has introduced at least 6 new high end dynamo hubs this year, including the bizarre T-708 with oversize axle,...
Explain more about this -- is it an MTB/touring hub?
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Old 10-26-09, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by BarracksSi View Post
Explain more about this -- is it an MTB/touring hub?
Yes, it is "officially" part of the Deore LX series. It has a oversize axle with a QR skewer that is a mixture of a real QR and a bolt through system. Shimano calls it "E-Thru system", and it is mostly meant for the European (German) market where hybrids with suspension forks and disc brakes are very common.

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Old 10-26-09, 08:52 AM
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I have a DH-3N72 which works very well. Can you service the bearings on them?

I want to get a Schmidt for my long distance bike, but I would never put one on a commuter.
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Old 10-26-09, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
I have a DH-3N72 which works very well. Can you service the bearings on them?

I want to get a Schmidt for my long distance bike, but I would never put one on a commuter.
Yes and no; it is not officially supported, but it can be done. The official policy is to exchange the entire rotor in case of bearing trouble inside it. (the policy for IGH's is the same).

The main problem is that when taking the rotor apart to access the hub bearings, it is easy to break the rotor wire that runs along a slot in the axle, so one should only attempt to service the rotor bearings as a last resort, probably only in case of trouble.
AFAIK, the cones are identical on both sides of the hub, so they can both be exchanged by ordering two non-rotor side cones.

The non-rotor side bearings are easy to access (just like all other Shimano hub bearings), and can perhaps be used as a gauge for the condition of the rotor side bearings.
I find bearing pre-load adjustment slightly more difficult on my Shimano generator hubs, since the magnets makes it more difficult to feel how tight/loose the bearing adjustment are.

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Old 10-26-09, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
I want to get a Schmidt for my long distance bike, but I would never put one on a commuter.
Is it because you lock your commuter out-of-sight for long periods and would be worried about theft, or is there some other reason? I've got a SON28 on my LD bike which doubles as my commuter, and it has held up admirably through a winter season of icy snowy weather and the traditional PNW constant rain.
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Old 10-26-09, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by interested View Post
Yes, it is "officially" part of the Deore LX series. It has a oversize axle with a QR skewer that is a mixture of a real QR and a bolt through system. Shimano calls it "E-Thru system", and it is mostly meant for the European (German) market where hybrids with suspension forks and disc brakes are very common.

--
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Whoa-**-**... cool. I was riding my MTB this weekend (Race For The Sky kinda inspired me ) and started to want a dynohub instead of the battery lights I've got on it now, but I was wondering about durability. Would this work with a regular suspension fork, then?
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Old 10-26-09, 04:39 PM
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Shimano's European Dyno-Hub Line-up

http://cycle.shimano-eu.com/publish/...ub_dynamo.html
-Gene-

Edit: Looking through their European offerings... it sucks to live in America. They have probably double the selection and so much more practical stuff... Like disc-brake rotors designed to work with road levers, and matching road hubs with centerlock mounts...

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Old 10-26-09, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Amani576 View Post
Shimano's European Dyno-Hub Line-up

http://cycle.shimano-eu.com/publish/...ub_dynamo.html
-Gene-

Edit: Looking through their European offerings... it sucks to live in America. They have probably double the selection and so much more practical stuff... Like disc-brake rotors designed to work with road levers, and matching road hubs with centerlock mounts...
No kidding it sucks here. Some shops here hardly know about dynohubs as it is.

Here's the Deore LX hub, although it's marked as a 660 instead of the T-708 that interested mentioned. I did find tech docs for the T-708, but that's it.
http://cycle.shimano-eu.com/publish/...2N.-type-.html

I really wish that Shimano would keep their site updated, though. It's missing a LOT of stuff, especially in sections that aren't for top-of-the-line components.
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Old 10-26-09, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by BarracksSi View Post
No kidding it sucks here. Some shops here hardly know about dynohubs as it is.

Here's the Deore LX hub, although it's marked as a 660 instead of the T-708 that interested mentioned. I did find tech docs for the T-708, but that's it.
http://cycle.shimano-eu.com/publish/...2N.-type-.html

I really wish that Shimano would keep their site updated, though. It's missing a LOT of stuff, especially in sections that aren't for top-of-the-line components.
Shimano's website sucks surprisingly much considering the size of the company. Regarding the T-708 then it appears to have been categorized as a Deore XT instead of LX on the Dutch Shimano site, but not on their English language part of their European site (Hubs 8 mm E-thru):
http://cycle.shimano-eu.com/publish/.../deore_xt.html

While it is labeled as Deore LX here:
http://techdocs.shimano.com/techdocs...=1247003554526

Some confusion in either Shimano's marketing department or a their website developers. I think the former, since the techdocs doesn't mention any group affinity, while both the T-660 and T-665 techdocs clearly says "Deore LX".

The T-660 Deore LX is more or less just the 3N72 with a different hub shell and made for V-brakes, while the T-665 Deore LX is for disc brakes. The T-708 is quite different because of its oversize "E-Thru" axle that requires special forks.

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Old 10-26-09, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by BarracksSi View Post
Whoa-**-**... cool. I was riding my MTB this weekend (Race For The Sky kinda inspired me ) and started to want a dynohub instead of the battery lights I've got on it now, but I was wondering about durability. Would this work with a regular suspension fork, then?
No the DH T-708 Deore (XT/LX) with E-Thru oversize axle requires special suspension forks. The Deore LX DH T-665 works with disc brakes and regular suspension forks however.
Regarding durability it is hard to say. I think it would work well for light to moderate off-road stuff, but I wouldn't submerge it in water. The biggest problem is that it is hard to service bearings on, so if you must repack your hubs often to avoid their destruction, a dynamo hub probably isn't for you.

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Old 10-27-09, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by interested View Post
The biggest problem is that it is hard to service bearings on, so if you must repack your hubs often to avoid their destruction, a dynamo hub probably isn't for you.
I think that only applies with Shimano Dyno-hubs. A Schmidt hub on the other hand will supposedly last for-freaking-ever, and it also uses sealed bearings to make it even better.
But you're dropping some cash there. Most people don't want to pay $300+ for a front wheel on a beater bike.
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Old 10-27-09, 04:58 PM
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I haven't gotten to the point where I need to repack my MTB's hubs. But, that only means that I need to ride it more and in crappier conditions..
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Old 10-27-09, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Amani576 View Post
I think that only applies with Shimano Dyno-hubs. A Schmidt hub on the other hand will supposedly last for-freaking-ever, and it also uses sealed bearings to make it even better.
But you're dropping some cash there. Most people don't want to pay $300+ for a front wheel on a beater bike.
-Gene-
There are two parts to this answer; the problem with servicing the bearings are the same, and reason why is also the same, namely the risk of breaking the rotor wire. So SOP with SON hubs here in Europe is to send them back to the factory, where they will replace the bearings for a minor amount.

The other part is whether SON hubs have better sealings than Shimano hubs; I think they have because the hub creates over-pressure in the bearing compartment, making it difficult for water to seep in or stay in. But even though SON hubs are amazing, I have seen several rapports of bearing failure, they may be very rare, but the SON hub is not immune to this kind of problem, so I wouldn't recommend to submerge it in water while riding across a stream.

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