Just to be very clear, the Rivendell article to which you're referring actually says "During normal pedaling at normal cadences, nobody pulls UP on the backstroke." That is not the same as "nobody pulls up." Furthermore, the Rivendell apostles often ignore Grant's rather sweeping disclaimer:

As a commuter myself, there are plenty of us that like to ride fast and hard.

Plus, even Rivendell likes, or at least acknowledges some benefit from, foot retention; Grant just doesn't like clipless. From the description for Power Grips: "The most underrated bicycle accessory on this or any other planet." They also sell cages and straps. Personally, clipless is simply much more comfortable than cages and straps.

I agree that clipless isn't for everyone, but to claim foot retention offers no benefit whatsoever is just hyperbolic.

I rode SPDs for a year on a road bike and I never learned to pull, it just felt awkward and I saw no benefit. However, the combination of cleats and bike specific shoes seems to be more efficient at transferring pedaling energy, but since I was never a competitive rider it didn't matter to me much. I use knobbed BMX pedals and I get tons of grip, I never have problems with sliding off the pedals even in snow and rain. I understand though that most people would be unwilling to put BMX pedals on their road bikes :D I know I'll have a dilemma when I build up my Kona Sutra frame.

Adam

Personally I'd be a lot more afraid of me feet sticking in toe clips and straps than clipless pedals. I use SPD's on all my bikes and i adjust the tension of the pedals to suit the type of riding I'm doing. The pedals on my fixed gear are very tight because I want to stay connected. The pedals on my MTB are pretty loose for quickly putting a foot down if needed. My other bikes are all adjusted somewhere in between.

I look at clipless pedals like driving a manual transmission car. Once you get used to driving like that you don't have to think to push in the clutch even in an emergency braking situation. Clipless pedals are the same way, you eventually gain that muscle memory and you never even think about unclipping even in a panic situation, it just happens.

See, I'd s**t myself if you put me on a fixie with clipless pedals in traffic :D

Adam

Tell me that the pros pull up on the back stroke on every stroke. I'd be interested to see that information. Bet they rarely do it either. Truth be told, I use toe clips and do find a bit of an improvement using those over platforms, just because I can push forward and down, but I've never, ever pulled up.

Yes. I rode nothing but clipless for about five years: eggbeaters on my singlespeed, Keo Sprints on my wannabe racer. Like others who've posted here, I'd thought I'd "mastered" the art of riding clipless. One of my riding buddies even commented on the speed with which I could unclip both feet simultaneously.
And then one day about three years ago, as I was climbing up the "dead man's curve" on the Manhattan side of the GW Bridge, I confronted a cyclist bearing down on me; I lost my cool, and frantically tried to unclip (and failed); I instinctively threw out my arm to break my fall; down I went, and "snap" went my arm. (Fortunately, the orthopedic surgeon installed steel plates and screws, not titanium -- "steel is real!")
Now, this didn't scare me away from clipless pedals. I still have the Keos on my fast road bike. And I had the eggbeaters on my SS when I started using it to commute last fall. But my route is short: 5 miles each way. And I got curious. What would I lose if I swapped out the eggbeaters for some decent platforms? Would it feel less "efficient?" Like Mickey85, I'd read GP's notes on pedals. So I tried the platforms. At first I was unnerved by the feeling of being unhooked from the pedals. But it took only a couple of rides to overcome that. I figured out which shoes perform best. Trust me: it makes a difference. (My favorites are Adidas Samba indoor soccer shoes for dry weather, cheap knock-off Crocs for wet.) My feeling now is that if I'm "losing" anything by having made the switch, it isn't clear what.
Let me be clear that I'm not endorsing platforms over clipless. What a tedious, endless debate! The point of my story is to illustrate what happened when I let go of some heavily marketed assumptions about what "serious" cycling involves.

I can see the use of clipless pedals in long duration pedaling, but due to my stop and go combat urban commute, I feel that platforms more efficient and safer in that type of commute. As I've posted many times on BF, there were several times that if I had been clipped in, it would have ended with a very bad result.

I do not own those pedals, but they should not be like that. I bought a pair of Crank Brothers Acid pedals and had trouble clipping in and out, but the shop I bought them from knew to install an additional shim on my shoes and now they're great/fine.

If you were wearing road shoes I'd suggest the Speedplay light actions. In mountain bike shoes nothing should be that tight, but my only specific suggestion is to go ask at the shop - sometimes there's a setting or adjustment that they can make.

Or, obviously, you could just buy a different system, though for expense reasons I would ask about it first.

Use what works for you. </thread>

Paul - they aren't loose to the point where I come out when I don't want to. I was just stating that I have no trouble getting out of them when I need to - and wondered if some pedals are harder than others to exit.

Wow. Apparently I somehow completely misread your post...sorry!

+1 [/thread]

The LBS and the pedal manufacturers share in the "learning curve" issues of clipless pedals for commuters. Ive bought two pedal sets through two different LBS and either the manufacturer or LBS had both of them set up for road race level tensions. Nearly immediately reducing the tension (reducing the difficulty of removing the shoe from the pedal) turn insecurity and fear into revelation and success for commuting. (I have spd's)

That plus you always buy a mtb style shoe so you dont rip up the hardwood floor (or worse, get blamed but not be responsible)

Other notes -- its also a matter of the commute length -- at 5 miles or less, whats the point of spending the xtra money for the pedals and the shoes.

Locking your feet in one place will affect any knee issues so be willing to adjust your cleat angles.

ok just to clarify, the reason I wanted to go clipless is efficiency not for the trend. Maybe it's placebo but during the uphill ride I really do pull up the pedal and I find that it makes me less tired to cycle this way. I hear some people say that noone really pulls up but I have seen me do it :).

Also others are mentioning how the unclip procedure becomes second nature. And it has for me as well, BUT only if I am riding on an even surface. I have a very hard time unclipping whike i am riding uphill, the foot just doesn't come out and I have to try many times. It's just the angle that makes it difficult. Also the power applied to pedal to move forward seems to be directly interfereing with trying to twist the ankle , sometimes I feel I am bout the fly off the bike doing so. And I don't want to make the cleats more loose because I understand that htere is some danger when the foot comes off too easily.

So is there a special trick to disengage when in an uphill angle?

The trick, as I believe was mentioned earlier, is to get into the proper gear earlier. Supposedly this is a hill that you know, so wtf would you be in such a high gear that you would have to shift under load? Lower gear, shift earlier, problem minimized.

Duuuuuuuuuude...chill out.

Use what makes your commute enjoyable.

Did you read my earlier post when I said that it is not a uniform hill? The slope keeps changing gradually so I can't always forsee the gear I am under. I believe that's what so many gears are there for to begin with. So that you are in one gear and if it's starting to get heavy you get into a lighter gear and vice versa.

Amen. I keep getting the same knee-jerk response from my LBS when I complain about downshifting problems. the fact is, at the bottom of the hill you are less tired, and the slope isn't as great, so you want to stay in a higher gear and then downshift as the slope increases and you become more tired.

Amen. I keep getting the same knee-jerk response from my LBS when I complain about downshifting problems. the fact is, at the bottom of the hill you are less tired, and the slope isn't as great, so you want to stay in a higher gear and then downshift as the slope increases and you become more tired.

My first thought is that you could try spinning up the hill in a lower gear than you typically use. On the ramp I mentioned above, I made a habit of dropping into my lowest gear (39x26) and letting my legs whir. What I don't know is whether, in such a situation, it's easier or safer to use clips/straps, as opposed to platforms.

And that is exactly what I did, slope increased I shifted down, chain jammed , i panicked etc etc.

The problem is that whenever you shift up or down this could happen. Probability is remote but it did happen to me once and once is all you need.

Not sure why this is so confusing.

And the fact remains that shifting from smaller to larger cog is prone to problems if you do it under load.

Yes, hyperglide and all that help, but its still not the easiest thing to do.

Isn't the traditional advice to ease up on the pedals just the teeniest bit upon shifting to take some of the load off? That seems to mean that you might be trying to shift while mashing, maybe better to shift while you are still spinning comfortably before your cadence drops off too much?

But I agree if something is not fun or totally uncomfortable for someone, they should do what is more comfortable as long as it is safe and gets the desired results...

That's what I was gonna say...

Sheldon said it too.

The best response I can give to the original post is "Practice, practice, practice." Pretty much everyone has the "Oh snap, I need to unclip, but can't!" experience at least once when they first start out with clipless pedals. With some practice, you get so you can unclip them in time to avoid falling under all but the most unfortunate of circumstances.

As for downshifts while riding uphill, just ease up a little as you shift. Both of my road bikes seem to handle this with no problem at all.

????

Yes, I read it, and my first thought was, "so what"? I don't know about you, but after a short amount of time I pretty much know my routes, what gear I want to be in, where I want to be in it and when I need to shift. I guess I misunderstood from your expressed knowledge of your terrain that you knew your terrain. No worries, over time you will.

You also don't need to stay in the highest gear you can manage. Staying in a lower gear and spinning easy in a higher cadence over a long but varied climb isn't a crime...and it may help minimize the problems you are experiencing, not to mention prevent knee and other physical problems down the road.

It seems highly unnecessary to swear at the guy for a problem that -
1. Your solution ends with "problem minimized"
2. His post states varying angles on the hill
3. Is entirely possible there's no choice - from time to time I'm putting a great deal of tension on the chain and derailler because I've run out of gears on my road bike. That may or may not apply I suppose, but I've ended up in the slightly wrong gear sometimes - it's just a fact of biking.

Learn to shift before you "need" to and spin a lower gear and thou shall find Jesus.