+1 on the marathon Plus. I get 1 to 2 flats on or less every year. Also, you have to plan on getting flats. That's just part of owning a bike. Your only alternative is already mentioned is the whole rubber tire. Not good on the wheels.

Even in a car you have to plan on getting flats. The amount of people unprepared to change their tire is ridiculous.

Yeah, but you said it's not as thick as the protection of the Marathon Plus. Why not? Why not just offer the Marathon Plus in 23c?

+1 Even with all the extra horsepower for carrying around everything-but-the-kitchen-sink plus essentially no barriers to weight and suspension technology cars are still equipped with pneumatic tires which are susceptible to flats. If a solid tire is a poor compromise for a car no way it could be a good compromise for a bike.

I probably have had flats fixed on my cars 4 times in my life. I fixed bike flats six times last year. That's a big difference. I'm glad I've got better tires now. I hate fixing flats. I wouldn't go with the airless either, the reviews here on BF are not good.

Can't say for sure why the cut-off for the Marathon Plus is 700x25. I would guess that the logic is, by the time you get to 700x23 most consumers are looking at the weight issue, and if someone is looking for max protection 700x25 is only 2mm wider (less than 1/12th of an inch).

The Durano Plus material I think is 3mm (instead of 5mm on the Marathon Plus) which is still pretty substantial, and thicker than a Mr. Tuffy liner. Since the Smartguard is an integral part of the tire, it's not nearly as detrimental to the ride characteristics of the tire either.

A 5mm layer of SmartGuard on a 23mm tire puts the casing/guard/tread stack height at nearly 1/3 the width of the tire. If you decrease the overall height profile of the tire accordingly to avoid having a tire which is 23mm wide but has the profile height of a 28mm tire, you'll probably have a difficult time shoehorning a 23 - 25mm tube in there.
A 23mm SMP would likely have a profile height closer to that of a 26mm or 27mm non flat protected tire, and could have issues fitting into a frame with tight clearances.

Oh no doubt a SMP tire is way superior to liner. Like you said, the rolling resistance is lower and it doesn't cause flats!

Anyway I'll have to try the Durano Plus sometime cause it looks like a well thought out tire.

Hmmm, I wonder how the profiles compare and how thick the layers are on the Specialized Armadillo or Maxxis Re-fuse. Both are lighter than Schwalbe's offerings.

EDIT: It appears that the Schwalbe uses a completely different puncture protection philosophy from the Armadillo and the Re-fuse. Looks like the Schwalbe uses a thick layer of rubber which is both heavier and bigger in volume whereas the others use a thinner layer of Kevlar which is lighter and smaller in volume. Seems maybe apart from being lighter and giving more clearance the Kevlar might work better at actually blocking punctures, but the Schwalbe method has better rolling resistance. Maybe Kojak can clarify.

I just got my first flat with Armadillos. It wasn't a glass puncture, so that leaves goathead and wire as the other possible culprits. My LBS changed out my flat and gave a tube and labor because they said they guarantee them for a year. Sweeeet. I still like 'em though.

Pretty much spot on, although we have tires that utilize kevlar as well. The standard Marathon has a kevlar belt as do the Big Apples (among others). With the "Plus" line of tires, it's the thickness of the material that provides the superior flat protection. Kevlar is tougher, but once something gets through, you're toast. With the "Plus" tires, it's just damn tough for anything to get through to the tube unless you run over a longish screw or nail.

Our very high end "Evo" tires (Marathon Supreme, Ultremo, etc) use a very densely woven vectran belt for puncture protection. Very supple and light, very low rolling resistance, but with anti-penetration properties similar to (better than) kevlar. Vectran is very tough, but not all vectran belts are equal. It's the density of the weave that determines the level of protection.

http://bikehugger.com/2009/03/ultremo-destructo.html

I might add that if you want to avoid flats it pays to check your tires often and remove anything stuck in the tire that may work its way through. While this takes time at least you can do it where you're comfortable and not on the side of the road.

+1 I have gone 8500 miles on a rear tire (Schwalbe Marathon Plus) on my utility bike - flat free.

Interesting, why didn't you mention the "evo" line of tires before? I suppose you consider the SmartGuard to be a better overall approach for preventing flats? Or because it's not really long wearing enough for a "commuter"?

The evo-line tires are great tires but they tend to be a quite a bit more expensive than our other tires, and the puncture protection is good (better by a bit than Kevlar) but not as effective as the Plus line Smartguard protection. It's again a penetration protection as opposed to mass of material protection. The advantage over Kevlar is that it's lighter and more supple creating a snappier and better feeling tire than one with our kevlar belt.

Woven Vectran has made it possible to produce a really nice race/performance tire with a really effective protection system. That being said, if avoiding flats is the most important characteristic, the Durano Plus or Marathon Plus tires will serve you better.

Schwalbe direct pricing on the Ultremo DD is $71.95 compared to $66.05 for the Durano Plus. Hate to say it Schwalbe guy, but I can't help but think you might just tell people whatever they want to hear.

Why is Schwalbe always changing the names on their tires? I think you guys would do well to let your products build up a reputation instead of changing the names all the time.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I've got no reason to lie. I'm not on commission or even on profit sharing.

The discussion had been centered on the best "No More Flats Set-up" (which, for the record isn't technically possible with a pneumatic tire).

The Marathon Plus was initially one of the tires discussed, which is what led to the discussion of the Durano Plus as it is produced in a narrower width than is available in the Marathon Plus. But yes, they are quite an expensive tire (more so than the Marathon Plus).

The Durano Plus is in fact a high performance road racing tire which happens to have our most effective puncture protection system. That said, our Evo line tires are nicer riding tires; more supple, our best rubber compounds, and great puncture protection, but they would be technically more likely to flat than our Plus Line tires, including the Durano Plus. My comment was meant to convey that, of the tires that we produce, our evo-line tires are our most expensive. That the Durano Plus tires are nearly as expensive, reflects on the features and technology built into that specific tire.

With regard to name changes, that is out of our hands. We are the North American distributor for Schwalbe brand tires. Product change and naming decisions are made in Germany, with very little consultation. We have at times been successful in lobbying against name changes, but at the end of the day our opinion is only that. There was one fairly recent change that has made sense, and that is the change from the Stelvio to the Durano. The Stelvio name is owned by a private entity (if what I'm told is true, it's a company in the UK, which seems odd). The name derives from a mountain pass in Italy. Anyone wanting to use this name with regard to a cycling product must pay said company a royalty per unit sold, bearing that name. Our agreement was up at the end of 2008 and Schwalbe decided against continuing the use of the name as a cost cutting measure.

tire liner scams
 

All tire liners are wimpy compaired to using a second tire inside of your tire. But you may need a bigger wheeled bike.

I havent had a flat in years even when
my 20” x 1.75” Schwalbe marathon 70psi developed a long gash in the middle of the tread (still some tread left) it would have blown out if I didn’t have a liner made from another tire.
http://funnyfarmart.com/images/tire.jpg

http://commutercycling.blogspot.com/...rs-expose.html

This is in fact an effective way to minimize flats, but this person's experience seems pretty extreme. The reality is, short of running airless tires, which has its own shortcomings, there is no set-up (including putting a tire in a tire) that will prevent every flat. So the question is, what are the conditions of the roads where you ride, and what are your trade-offs?

Personally, I like a snappy lively ride, with rubber that grips well even in the wet. I commute year round, and I want my riding to be as enjoyable as possible. This drives my tire selection. If not getting a flat was my most important factor, my choice would be something other than what I'm riding. Not that my tires are puncture prone (quite the contrary), but I know there are more protective tires than the ones that I commute on.

To install a tire inside a tire is to say that, "I don't care what the ride is like and I'll do anything to minimize the potential for getting a flat", and if it works for this guy or anyone else who am I to argue. But, there are plenty of tires on the market (Schwalbe or otherwise) with ample protection for most people while still providing a pleasant riding experience.

This might not be new info to most of you but I will say it anyways, if you always ride your bike in the car's wheel tracks you will never get a flat. Its not always possible or safe but it works 100% of the time because the cars tires will pick up anything that could give you a flat. It is when you ride to far to the side of the road that you are most prone to flats.

KarlMarsh is exaggerating for emphasis, I'm sure. Of course the strategy he describes won't work 100% of the time. But he's right to emphasize the importance of adapting your behavior to road conditions. Minimizing flats is only partly about making wise consumer choices.

I think tuffys help reduce flats, but if they get a crack (like from a significant sidewall cut etc), the crack will flex and cut the tubes, it took 4 flats to figure that one out. Ive used the bontrger race lite tires, they seem to be pretty good. w/o going to cyclocross/city tires (38 mm) you will probably always get flats. the other way is to just get used to it.

Hey, it's a step in the right direction for me. I was previously running Veloflex Paves with Mr. Tuffies -- The Horror! ;)

I'll take your comments under consideration. I have a new set of Kenda Kalientes sitting around. Maybe I'll use those for commuting, and save the Contis for less rigorous applications.

anyone compare "puncture proof" tires? i have panaracer ribmos which have been solid but i'm curious how they compare to the other tires being suggested here.

The goatheads have a lug attached behind the point. And all the thorns max out at a certain length (I am not going to give you the length in millimeter, simply pick some up off the ground and inspect yourself). The lug plus the thickness of the thorn at the base stops them going beyond a certain distance in the tube. This distance is long enough to puncture any standard thickness tube, but not long enough (when used in conjunction with Armadillo tires) to puncture a thorn resistant tube. I have literally pulled and inspected hundreds of tubes and Armadillo tires in goatweed country and the picture is always the same: the tip of the thorns project only about 1-2mm past the material of the tire. The tips are stopped from going any further by the thickness of the base of the thorn. And eventually those tips either break off or becoming blunted by vibration/movement against the rubber of the thick inner tube.

So the answer is: yes, no matter the small differences in the length of the thorns, the ones that penetrate always max out at a certain 1-2mm distance beyond the material of the Armadillo.

And since you ask how. . . . The answer is because the Armadillo utilizes two densely woven layers nylon that do the actual flat protection. Imagine you have a steel chain link fence, two layers thick. Now imagine you try to push the tip of a plastic funnel (such as you might use to refill your lawmower) through those two layers of steel chain link. The tip of the funnel is only going to penetrate so far. Since goatweed thorns absolute maximum length pretty much is the same everywhere, the visible thorn tips that you see penetrating inside your Armadillo tires stick out pretty much uninformly about 1-2mm, unless the tips have already broken off or they are still working their way in.

So that's the how. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Or do your own research. Actually goatweed consumption is supposed to be good for virility and restoring hair loss, so it could do you some good. Alright -- just kiddin big guy! ;-)

Wow :: puff puff puff ::

Funny, no sooner than I mention a lawnmower, I notice an ad for a Craftsman lawnmower has popped up on this page. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? I am I just paranoid, or do the advertizers have our number??

Let's try it again: lawnmower, lawnmower, LAWNMOWER! :-)