non-winter all-around/commuter - confused about differences
 

Having read old threads till my eyeballs hurt (thanks for all the wonderful info, btw), I have to resort to asking you guys for questions.

My old bike (28" 7-gear Nexus Nishiki) has been retired to winter bike status with required changes for riding in snow, slush, on ice and sub-zero temps (centigrades).

So, while I don't 100% *need* a new bike, I'm in the market for one.

My commute is short c. 7.5 miles, but I have no car so I drive practically everywhere where I don't have to take a train or a plane. I'm 183cm (6') and 63kg (140lbs).

The bike needs to transport me in the city, on some non-paved forest roads (not off road) and do it cleanly. No mountains here, but this isn't the Netherlands either, so enough of hills for me to appreciate gears.

For simplicity and hassle-free system I've liked IGH systems a lot. Good maintenance once a year, otherwise just basic cleaning and that's it.

I prefer a more relaxed riding position and ability to stand a bumpy ride. So drop bars and road bikes are out of the question for me. Doesn't have to be 100% dutch style upright either. Plenty of wind here, sometimes it's nice to crouch even if only a little.

So I need basic city/commute bike with a full set of fenders, rack and hopefully a fully enclosed chainguard. Belt drive is an possibility. 700cc/28" tires preferred. As hassle-free as possible and reliable. Hopefully built to last.

With that said, I've narrowed myself down to these, which I can order within EU easily:

Cube Hooper 2010
http://www.cube-bikes.de/xist4c/web/..._id_36155_.htm
+ Alfine IGH, Alfine hydraulic disc brakes (KS5012, 160 mm), ALU frame, plain-old chain, internal cable routing

Norco Ceres 2010
http://www.norco.com/bikes/urban/belt-drive/ceres/
+ Alfine IGH, Shimano mechanical disc brakes (BR-M416, 160mm), ChroMo frame, gates belt drive

Giant Seek 0 2010
http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-gb/....0/4864/38991/
+ Alfine IGH, Giant hydraylic disc brakes (Giant Root, gold ed.), ALU frame, chain

I also looked at Kona Dr Fine, Felt X-city 1, but ruled them out. Also looked at the Trek Soho, but the Nexus (non-premium) hub and somewhat weakish roller brakes left me wondering. I like the bikes hassle-free setup otherwise.

Smaller US/CAN brands are out, GBP is too expensive now, so UK brands are out as well. All of the above are roughly the same price (c. 1000EUR + fenders/rack/lamp).

All have disc brakes, Alfine IGH and can be fitted with basic fenders / rack. Not sure I can find a compatible hebie chainglider for the gates belt drive and not sure I really need one on it or not.

Not being able to test any of these, so I must buy based on images/specs. The local shops pretty much all sell the cheapest possible Chinese nexus-7 or expensive MTBs, which I don't want. Can't test any of the Alfine bikes anywhere. I can *order* them at several LBSs, but they don't have them in stock for testing.

With all that said, I'm confused about the following:

- how important are the geometry differences between the abovebikes - if any?
- mechanical or hydraulic disc brakes - does it make much of a difference?
- CroMo vs Alu? I'd prefer something softer for my aging wrists than hard alu, but corrosion is an issue at my latitudes with plenty of water/salt on the roads, although I do have a dedicated winter beater bike now
- internal cable routing? does it turn out to be a bad idea in the end, even if it looks clean?
- maximum tire size (width) - how can I tell? Was planning on testing something floatier, perhaps even Big Apple type tires, and definitely not the 22 that come standard on the Cube Hooper
- if I decided to upgrade at some point to another hub, maybe even Alfine 11 (when it comes out), I wonder which frame would be most versatile for different options?

I'd really appreciate any help, pointers and "not to do"s. As you may notice, I'm not that much of a guru on bike tech, but I do like to ride and would like to make a decent purchase.

Out of curiosity, why did you rule out the Dr. Fine? (Besides the fact that they're sold out everywhere, that is.)

Mechanical vs. hydraulic discs:
Depending on who you ask one may be more reliable than the other. Mechanical will be easier to work on when they do need maintenance, but I've seen some people on here suggesting that hydraulics are less trouble overall. I've also seen people say the mechanicals are less trouble overall. YMMV.

One thing to consider is that if you go with hydraulics, you will not be able to switch to drop bars without replacing your entire brake system aside from the rotors.

Personally, I love the hydraulic brakes on my Dr. Dew. They have ridiculous amounts of stopping power, and really great control and feel.

You may want to consider getting a front wheel with a dynamo hub and a set of dynamo-driven lights. It's a substantial additional investment, but it means not worrying about batteries running down or you forgetting your lights.

Add the Breezer Uptown 8 to your list... it is about as complete a commuter bike you can find that isn't made in Holland.

I'm also curious as to why you ruled out the Dr. Fine. And the X City. Those are two nice bikes.

You're honestly overthinking it. Find something you like, buy it, and ride it into the ground. All the talk about geometry and bits and pieces is nice, but it doesn't ultimately matter what people on the internet think. They're not riding your ride and they're not doing your maintenance.

The only major choices you've presented are hydro brakes vs. mechanical and chain vs. belt. Those topics have pages and pages of arguing over them, so I'd recommend you make those two decisions and then your bike choice will be simple.

Swobo Baxter http://www.swobo.com/catalog/product...cPath=201_1473

Raleigh Detour Deluxe http://www.raleighusa.com/bikes/hybrid/detour-deluxe/

Seriously. You're making a huge deal out of something simple.

7.5 miles? You can ride anything. Get a $300 rigid mountain bike, slap some fenders, lights, smooth but fat tires and a rack on it and you have a perfectly capable road and off-road commuter for under $500. Forget hydro brakes, ridiculous overkill, you're not racing downhill at 50mph. Low end mechanical Hayes disc brakes will send you flying over handlebars.

Why not just put summer tires on your winter bike and use it? I have found that most of the features that are desirable in a winter bike are also desirable in a summer one. If you are in Europe, I'd recommend either Utopia (Germany), Pashley (UK), or Gazelle (Holland). The best advice I can give you is to look only for bikes you can test ride. If you get a bike with the Gates belt drive, a chaincase is not needed.

Paul

those look like nice bikes, including the additional bikes suggested. no question about it but personally I doubt I'll ever buy a bike via mail order.

Geometry does matter sometimes... but the bits most people worry over aren't the bits I have found actually matter. Effective top tube matters, tho given the OP's preferred riding position, not much. If he wants to try drops, it matters a lot more. The bottom bracket height matters a lot. It dictates chainstay length to a remarkable degree (especially if you're short), and affects all kinds of stuff with stopping, general handling and the bike's ability to handle heavy cargo. I wouldn't say there's a hard and fast point where the bottom bracket should be tho. Some of the guys here on BF can manage 40-50lb loads with much twitchier bikes than I can, because they're taller and heavier and just plain have more weight to shift around.

I'm a little afraid that I'm sounding like an annoying broken record here, commenting in each of these threads, but I own a bike with an Alfine IGH. And I discovered - if you have an IGH with a chain vs a decent derailler system (like Tiagra, just not something from Target), there's nearly no difference in maintenance. All the regular maintenance is one the chain - cleaning the chain, oiling the chain after riding in the wet, etc. A derailler above Target-grade doesn't require much if any adjustment after a few hundred miles. And guess what - I found out that my IGH also requires adjustment in that same time period due to cable stretch.

Adjusting a rear derailler isn't particularly difficult - it's just a hand-screw you turn one way or the other and try shifting until things line up. You might be thinking "I just don't want to deal with that", but with an IGH you're going to have to learn to adjust *it* as well, and it's a completely new and different procedure to remove and put back on the rear wheel. It's totally, totally different. Just sayin - you're gonna be stuck learning to do new stuff either way if you want to do it yourself.

Because of that, although I have no experience with it and have never heard of it before, I would suggest Norco Ceres because it has a belt drive. Because there's no need to oil and maintain a chain, it might actually be less maintenance.

Sure, geometry matters to the extent it matches your use and intended riding position, but any geometry difference between the bikes the OP listed won't matter. Millimeters here and there may change things subtly, but for an upright bike that will be ridden relatively slowly, it won't really matter.

I've ben riding an Alfine for 2x6 mile commute for 2 winters and almost 2 years.
The only bike I could find that was available was Dahon Cadenza 8. Its a nice ride, the Alfine is trouble free and it is cleaner than derailleurs. I used to muck-out the pulley wheels every few months. There is nowhere for dirt to collect now.
The Big Apple tyres are great over cobbles and efficient at cruising speed (but not so good at higher speeds)
Cable adjustment is easy and rarely needed. Wheel removal is not difficult.
Chain tension needs to be adjusted occasionally.
-Chain tensioners just replicate all the issues of derailleurs.
-Horizontal dropouts are simple but you change the brake alignment. Not sure if this is an issue. People use Alfine on the Cotic Road rat frame.
-Eccentric bottom brackets are neat but some are not so good.
--External bolt/clamp style, easy and simple. If you break the clamp, your frame is screwed but I like them.
--Set screw style, Can wear a dimple in the Eccentric block and always return to one position.
-- Internal clamp: can seize up. If you must, use a self-removing unit such as Bushnall.
-- Sliding vertical dropouts (Paragon). Good but only found on custom models.

Disc brakes can interfere with rack and fenders. Get a rear disc on the chainstay not the seatstay and you can fit a normal rack.

Other makes to look at are Merida s-presso i8d
cotic road rat

The sportiness/uprightness of the bike is purely a personal thing.

To be fair, while I have not tried them (mine came with discs and a rack), most rack manufacturers do make disc compatible racks nowadays. I think pretty much every manufacturer makes at least one. And if it has an IGH, it's likely that it's designed with commuting duty in mind so it would be likely to have fender mounts. Good idea to check though.

If I had to replace the bike I have now. I'd get a Surly 1x1 outfitted with a derailluer or a IGH. That thing has all the braze-ons you'd want. Plus it'll fit disk or cantilever brakes. And best of all, it'll fit either 1" tires or 2.75. Awesome snowbike ! This is the website where I first saw one. http://mplsmtb.blogspot.com/2008/11/...-mans-pug.html

I'm also new to the whole IGH thing, and I'm wondering whether this is a fair characterization. I know that the Alfine is supposed to be a higher level hub, but they're made by the same company, and use many of the same parts. As far as I can tell, they're both made in Japan (at least that's what it seems to say on Shimano's web site).

This does give you a cheap, versatile solution. That being said, I recently purchased an 08 Soho which is nearly identical to the Giant Seek and I love it.

+1

I commute year-round on a Trek ZX 6500 MB. I don't fit in with the fashion-conscious folks, but that's not why I ride.

From the OP...

"My commute is short c. 7.5 miles, but I have no car so I drive practically everywhere where I don't have to take a train or a plane. I'm 183cm (6') and 63kg (140lbs)."

Mind you... I have been pretty happy with my old rigid mountain bikes with their slicker tyres and fenders, racks, and lights.

Had a discussion with my friend.

He recommended Norco, reasons:

- belt drive is much less dirty and esp. grease dirty (which never washes off)
- steel frame is nicer
- mechanic disc brakes are fairly easy to setup and and maintain, while retaining enough stopping power
- alfine 11 ought to be close to a drop out replacement for alfine 8 so all should work with it
- cable routing can be done internally later on, if needed
- check geometry closely with your individual body measurements, if you can't test (done)
- corrosion (use frame saver or similar for protection)

I'll go with Norco.

Thanks for all the replies.

I admit, I missed that part.

A.