n_r_child

I've (primarily) lurked for a long time and have seen many gorgeous bikes in this forum. Thanks for sharing, and making me lust after them all. My wallet does not like you, however.


Anyway, to the point- I'm considering a new commuter. For the last couple of years I've ridden on an older Peugeot Iseran steel bike outfitted with rack and fenders. I knew it was a bit small when I bought it, but I liked that it had me sit a bit more upright. Still, it isn't that comfortable, it's heavy when laden down with my work gear, and most importantly braking distances are absolutely horrendous. Since I ride in traffic, passing through downtown lights with quick cycles, nearly sliding into an intersection as I have is not confidence-inspiring. With all of that in mind, I tend to find excuses not to ride.

As such, I'm thinking of upgrading. Currently, I have the Novara Fusion in mind- while unattractive aestheticaly IMHO, it has the fenders, IGH (Alfine) and disc brakes that I have in my head will make the ideal commuter. It doesn't help that I keep pretending I will actually ride during wet / snowy weather so wet weather braking is also on my mind; however, Denver does get the occasional afternoon squall so I don't think I'm being irrational considering it. I don't like the flat bar, but might swap it for the bars off the Novara Safari. It also is a very cheap option for those features- I have my dividend and the 20% sale to take advantage of; additionally, I'll save enough money on parking to cover the cost within 2 years.

So: a few questions.

1) Disc brakes are good in the wet. Rim brakes perhaps not so much, but there are a few styles of rim brakes (cantis, V, others?)... are any even remotely comparable to discs? What other types offer strong braking performance in dry and wet (coaster, hub, ???)

2) Does anyone have other bike suggestions:
- NEED: rackable bike (rear is fine)
- NEED: fender capable
- NEED: strong braking, ideally strong wet weather (likely discs, but am open to others)
- prefer room for studs / larger tires
- prefer drop bar, but can live with a flat
- prefer IGH for simplicity's sake

BarracksSi

As far as the ol' Peugeot goes, does it have steel or alloy rims? How about the tires and pads -- are they old and hard?

Question 1) - What really separates discs (and coaster, and drums) from any rim brakes is the location. You'll have to be in knee-deep water to get disc rotors significantly wet. All the rest of the time, in heavy rain and on wet roads after a rain or in snowmelt, discs work better.

2) If you can wait, and will spend some more, Civia's got a version of their Bryant coming out with discs, Alfine internal hub, belt drive, easy rack & fender mounts, and drop bars with an SIT-style shift lever that's compatible with the 8-sp hub. You could also get that Fusion and source the shifter that Civia uses while converting it to drop bars and likely spend less than you would on a Bryant.

Shifter:
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...s.php?id=32397

canyoneagle

+1 on the Civia Bryant recommendation, plus the Hyland as an alternate. Both seem to be a hell of a package for the money. Other options exist, of course, such as the Swobo Baxter, some of the new IGH-equipped bikes from BikesDirect.com (listed under "singlespeed/track"), etc. Your budget and your specific preferences will play a huge part in the decision.
Good luck and have fun!

BarracksSi

Oh, holy cow -- I never thought to look there before. Sturmney-Archer 5sp bike for under $500? Criminy... if only it could take discs I'd order one before lunch...

dynaryder

How about the Safari? I've ridden one almost daily since fall of '06. It's been through all weather,used for polo,and has hauled many full loads of groceries. Zero problems. It has everything you're looking for(the trekking bar is as good as a drop bar) except the IGH. The derailleurs haven't been any real problem to maintain,and they give me the gear range to comfortably go up and down hills and carry heavy loads. It came with a rack,fenders were easy to mount,and I ran 2" studded tires through Snowpocalypse. The trekking bar and adjustable stem allow you to dial in your riding position without swapping parts. Only complaint I ever had was the stock twist grips;I swapped them for SRAM thumb triggers and it's been all love ever since.

Torrilin

Any bike with aluminum alloy rims will have rim brakes that have more power than you can safely use. Even in the wet. No scratch that, especially in the wet. You've got a contact patch of maybe 2 square inches, and sufficient brake power to lock both the front and the rear wheels. This means front skids are pretty much always potentially on the agenda, and front skids often mean wiping out.

The advantage of a roller, coaster or disc brake is not that it puts out more power. It's that it can't get caked with ice or mud, so it's pretty well impossible for it to freeze in the non-braking position. Brakes that are frozen in the off position are really dangerous... but I'm not convinced they're such a big danger for a typical commuter that everyone should ride discs. Madison gets a lot of snow, but if the snow hasn't been plowed yet, people are driving like idiots. Most of the time, I'd rather walk than bike in those circumstances. This is obviously a YMMV situation, since winter weather, travel distances, and job flexibility varies a *lot*.

I'd really recommend checking out some bikes with modern rims. A lot of the old Peugots I see around town have steel rims, and those have much weaker braking performance. And if they get wet, it degrades even more.

tatfiend 

The OP mentioned running an old Peugeot. Does it have steel rims? If so braking, particularly in the rain, is reputedly lousy. Supposedly it can be improved with Fibrax Raincheater? brake pads but not easy to find them. With Aluminum rims good pads such as Kool Stop Salmon pads should work fine in rhe rain if the calipers and cables are in good condition. New pads and cables can improve braking quite a bit.

The disc brake works well in all conditions but is heavier than rim brakes. A drum setup is heavier yet and coaster brakes are for the rear wheel only and make rear wheel removal a hassle.

tjspiel

If you want to buy a new bike, by all means go ahead. Few people here are going to argue against getting another bike. It might be worth trying some new brake pads on the Peugeot though. Even if you sell it, you can do so knowing the new owner will be able to stop their bike.

Sometimes you don't fully realize how bad the pads are on an old bike until you put new ones on. The pads that came on my wife's 1987 Univega had petrified to the point that they hardly worked at all. KoolStop Eagle II's are a nice pad if you can get some that fit.

daveF

I would definitely go with disc brakes for your next commuter. I have five different bikes that I commute on, all with different type brakes (Shimano Dura-Ace road caliper, Cane Creek cantilever, Shimano Deore V-brakes, Avid BB7 mechanical discs, & Avid Juicy 3 hydraulic discs). I love the BB7 mechanical discs. They are easy to adjust & keep clean. Although the V-brakes work extremely well, it is much more maintenance keeping the rims & brake pads clean after riding in bad weather. And, the breaking power of the disc brakes are much better & particularly after getting dirty.

woodway

I commuted for a couple of years on a bike with canti rim brakes. When dry, they were awesome. When wet, they were good, but due to the oil/gunk that gets onto the rims when riding in the wet, it could take a few rotations of the tire for the brakes to become really effective and give me full stopping power.

Using a brake pad formulated for wet conditions helps with wet stopping tremendously (I used Koolstop Salmons). But even the Koolstop pads took a few wheel rotations to give full braking power, and I have had a couple of close calls over the past year because of the effectivness delay.

Earlier this year I built a new commuter that sports Avid BB7 discs. When dry, the stopping power is no different than rim brakes, but when wet I get almost immediate and full stopping power. I also find it easier to modulate the stopping power with the disc brakes, but that may just be a personal preference thing. I could not be happier with the discs, and don't notice the difference in weight.

I commute year-round, and it's wet here a lot in the winter, so wet stopping power is important to me. YMMV.

Seattle Forrest

It's been a long time since I've ridden a bike with rim brakes, and, honestly, I won't do it again.

There are a few things I like about disc brakes. Due to their position, it's harder to get water ( or mud or grime ) into the brakes in the first place, but that really doesn't matter. I ride in the Pacific Northwet, sometimes in driving rain. More important than the placement, is the fact that the brakes just sheet water off the disc. You can hose your brakes down and then lock them up, if you wanted to. They give you a lot of control over exactly how much braking force to apply, so that you can coast gently to a stop when that's appropriate, or put yourself over the bars when full power is less dangerous than that car... Never mind that the rims aren't really meant for stopping, and I prefer to apply the torque closer to the center of the wheel ( which is reinforced anyway, at least in the back, because this is close to where the chain drives it ).

A lot of people have warned me that using disc brakes on a skinny tire bike might cause the universe to implode, killing everything. But I didn't know I was supposed to worry about the brakes locking up and the wheels losing traction with the road for a couple years of cycling this way.

I say go for it.

xtrajack

Another vote for the discs and the trekking bars, love 'em both.

n_r_child

That's why I love this forum- answers from a variety of perspectives but that include some rationale thought behind them. Thanks, all.

For the folks asking about the existing brakes / tires / wheels: the tires are older, but not hard (I do see some very slight cracking indicative of dry rot on the sidewall, so they certainly aren't the best). The brakes don't seem overly hard, but they are trying to grab steel rims. I have thought about fixing her up, trying new pads and adjustments all around but the frame is still marginally too small so I don't want to throw too much at her.

Still, for the sake of posterity and better answers, maybe I'll fix the old one just to see if it improves in any noticeable fashion. I like the style of the bike, and maybe I can keep it for the occasional ride- I am leaning toward picking up the new one, however.

Oh, and why don't I just ride the Safari? I actually tried one out and while it isn't a bad ride by any means, I preferred the Fusion. I also tried a Raleigh Sojourn that they still have on the floor and while I LOVE the style of that bike, it didn't ride quite as comfortably as the Fusion- it felt harder, somehow. I would attribute that to skinnier, higher pressure tires but I don't think it was that simple- the ride was a bit too jarring.

n_r_child

Mind posting some pictures? I was looking at the mounting points on the frame and they didn't appear to be particularly fender friendly.

cyccommute 

Any modern bike with aluminum rims is going to perform far better than an old bike with steel rims...short of putting metal pads on the brakes. Steel rims should have been banned by International treaties long ago. In the rain, you'd get better performance out of teflon coating then with those rims. Dump 'em!


The ride quality of a bike depends far more on the tire than on the frame. The Sojourn probably has 32 mm tires on it. A pair of 37 mm tires would improve the ride quality greatly.

As for the disk vs rim thing: Here I know exactly what I'm talking about. You ride in my back yard. You don't need discs for riding on the road (hardly need them for off-road). Denver doesn't get that kind of rain. Sure we may have a wet day now and then but, for the most part, our rain storms are short, intense affairs that can make water flow from gutter to gutter and then be absolutely dry 30 minutes later. In the summer you don't even need fenders. Heck, you don't even need a rain jacket most of the time. I keep one at work to deal with the afternoon thunderstorms but it comes out only once ever couple of years.

Get better wheels...and a new bike while you are at it...and your brake problems will be a thing of the past.

canyoneagle

Yeah, I stumbled across them while searching for a bike for my son. That 5sp SA is a killer deal. BD is getting some pretty cool stuff on the streets these days (no flaming, please, folks ).

BarracksSi

You should see all the web pages I opened for ten minutes after finding the 5sp Kilo, looking for hub info and gear ratios, and plugging them into gearing calculators. After reading Sir Sheldon's endorsement of Taiwanese SA stuff, I think I may have found my cheap bike.

dynaryder

I don't think I have any of it. The rear fender is a PB standard(not Hardcore or Cascadia) and it mounted straight on with no mods. The front is a MTB fender w/extra long mudflap;I did this so it would be removable(I used to use this bike for polo) and so snow wouldn't pack up in the winter. The current models would be easy. Up front you'd attach the stays to the lowrider mounts on the sides of the fork,out back the brake caliper is mounted on the chainstay so it wouldn't be an issue.

destikon

I will be skipping discs on my next commuter. I'm disappointed with the performance of my Avid BB7's compared to my traditional rim style brakes. I have salmon pads that I like much better. It seems like every time it's rainy road oil splashes on my rotors making them completely ineffective. Give me canti's next time with salmon pads.

canyoneagle

Me too, though I've been thinking of getting the retro "grass racer" and throwing an IGH in the rear.... https://bikesdirect.com/products/mercier/kilott_os.htm ..... looks like a fun bike for sure.

dynaryder

Does not computer. If oil is splashed on your rotors,won't it get on your rims as well?

What's your setup? No offence,but I've seen plenty of disc bikes that weren't adjusted properly. I've had to 'fix' the brakes on like 3 or 4 of my bikes right after I purchased them from a shop. I'm talking about pads set way off from the rotor and in one case a caliper being mounted crooked. My whole reason for going to discs was wet/snowy weather performance,I can't believe canti's are going to perform better than a properly done set of BB7's. Are your pads contaminated? Have you tried pulling them out and giving them a good scuffing with sandpaper?

n_r_child

So I ordered the Fusion just to ensure I got all of my possible discounts. Naturally, I ordered it the same day I get an email at work that they are experimenting with paying our parking expenses... oh well.

As it is, the price of the Fusion makes it nearly untouchable but I'm just not sold on the styling. Since it will take a couple of weeks for it to arrive I'll be keeping my eyes out for some additional bikes (and reviewing more fully the ones suggested here) on the off chance that I find the perfect bike before taking delivery. I'll probably even relax my disc brake thoughts and consider those with V-brakes as well (thanks, cyco, for the local input). Given the price disparity, I expect I won't find anything that makes sense from a financial standpoint so the reality is I will probably ride it for a year or so while saving up and doing more research. It will give me some experience with some different factors, meaning its replacement will be an even more informed choice.

PaulRivers

Aaaaaaaaaaaah, you already ordered it.

I was going to say the simplicity and easy of maintenance on a belt drive IGH bike is far better (at least in theory, and I own a chain IGH).

If you haven't owned one before, you should note that the rear wheel comes off in a rather different way than a usual way, and I think it requires a wrench to take off. fyi!

AdamDZ

There is something seriously wrong with your BB7s if they perform worse than rim brakes. Also, a splash of oil will disable your rim brakes with the best pads as well.

mharter

I have had bad luck with Avid SD7 V brakes and long reach dual pivot caliper brakes.
The SD7s can be tuned up so that they work fairly well, but after a few days of riding, they lose all modulation. They become on/off switches that are pretty scary to ride. Experimenting with different pads has not helped. I was a mechanic for many years and I tuned up a lot of brakes, but I just can't figure out how to make these work.
With caliper brakes, it seems that the longer ones just can't provide enough leverage to give as much stopping power as I need.
I am looking at discs for my next ride.