I have Selle-Anatomica and it is very comfortable for my 8 mile each way commute in NYC, it required almost no break-in, just needed to find the right position on the first couple of rides.

Fortunately for me that my Brooks B17 wasn't a failed experiment. Right off the get go, the Brooks slickness was a major relief for my chaffing problem, though it took a few rides to find the side to side and front to back angles that are correct for me. Now that my saddle chaffing (along with new grips for hand numbness) issues have subsided, my commute seems too short.

I lucked out on a sale at Nashbar, bought my B-17 for $56.

It was relatively comfortable right out of the box, but took 1,000+ miles to get really comfortable.

By that, I mean that it was starting to feel pretty hard, after 40 miles or so, now it's an old friend.

Yes, it was worth every bit of the discomfort, to get us broken in together.

At 190#, I can't imagine riding anything else......... even though I did find the Specialized Body Geometry seat pretty comfortable.

My only regret - buying the black one to match my bike - shoulda bought the honey one, to show it off - it is a beautiful saddle.....

I do believe that's was my problem.. my seat is lower than my bars. I almost got the B68 out of the gate, but I tried the B17 since that's the one most people seemed to recommend. After feeling how harsh the ride was on the B17, that's why I decided on the B67 so I could get the springs and hopefully help that out some. I'll probably have to replace my suspension seat post (although I think it bottoms out whenever I sit on it and now adjustment that I can find), but I'm going to wait and see.

If the seat is significantly higher then the bars then you need to look at the B17n (narrow) or a B15 Swallow or a Swift.

If the seat is lower then the bars then the B17 or the B6x (what ever model you like) is the better choice.

As your hips roatate up with the bars the wider seats are a better choice.

But Linux is proof that quality doesn't have to be pricey. Now if only we can establish a co-op to make high quality leather saddles. ;)

Sure, you get a computer you paid too much for that uses hardware that you can only buy one place, and if it breaks there's only one place that will fix it. But if you really get under the hood of one, which most Apple users will never do, you realize there's nothing really special. Macs are all the rage of the cagers that will sit on the side of the road with a flat and wait for AAA too. :P

Mac fanboys are weird,no two ways about it. And 85% of cyclists are NOT using Brooks Saddles

Oh, and if you think I'm just a Windows user with a grudge these comments are typed on a Macbook Pro.

Off-topic post warning.

Actually, they are VERY special, under the hood, you are just not educated enough to realize how. Macbook Pros, for example (on which I'm typing also) have the chassis machined from a solid block of aluminum, which also doubles as a heatsink. The blowers are variable speed and very quiet. The keyboards are LED backlit, and LEDs never burn out. Or rather, it takes 100,000 hours of use. The touchpads are more sensitive and don't require separate buttons, and they are at least 3X the size of PC touchpads. The bottom cover uses screws that go in at an angle to conserve space. The batteries are lithium polymer, which are cube-shaped and make much more efficient use of space than cylindrical lithium ion cells. That is why they can run 7 hours on a charge without ugly "extra life battery packs" sticking out the back. The headphone jack doubles as a microphone jack. It has an LED battery meter on the side. The LCD screens are sharper, more contrasty, higher quality, and auto-dimming. The power plug is trip-proof. Apple is now starting to make its own silicon for even more capability. When a Macbook is on standby, it doesn't get hot when put in a bag. (like my work PC laptop does) Both the hardware and software are more reliable and more intuitive. The fan exhaust and display hinge share an opening, so there are no extra enclosure openings needed. The speakers also share this opening, and they sound better than those of the same size PC laptops. In short, it is an engineering masterpiece.


Maybe you take all these things for granted now, or maybe you just bought the Macbook to be trendy, I don't know.

Maybe I deal with them for a living and they're nothing more than a tool... as are many of their proponents.. It's just one of many computers I own..

And it would be so easy to dissect your rant, but there's no cure for a true fanboy :P

+1 - B17's and Champion Fylers are designed to work for an upright seating position....as you lean forward more the saddle won't be as comfortable....although Brooks does offer models appropriate for more aggressive riding positions.

I'm enjoying my B-17 and i have like 5 cm between saddle to bars. Is that 'drastic' drop or would you guys call that pretty even?

Off topic/

Mac is more reliable because it's a closed platform: one vendor controls both the hardware and the OS. Ever tried installing third party SAS, SATA, SCSI, or even USB or FW (not all work with OS support) PCI cards in a Mac? If the drivers are ***** they will bring OSX down in no time. Although, there have been well documented cases of Apple System Updates breaking OSX or even accidentally erasing hard drives.

There is really nothing special about Mac aside from fancy mechanical case engineering, that makes them pain to service and upgrade, and a closed ecosystem. All the things you have mentioned: body as a heatsink, multifunction audio jacks, backlit keyboards, LED backlit LCDs, lithium polymer batteries, auto dimming LCDs, etc have been around for a year or more. Apple just has the peculiar ability of taking something that already exists and making it a big deal, "a revolution" and brainwashes people into believing that their hardware is superior.

All the parts, including LCD screen in Macs come from the same factories that all other PC parts such as Foxconn, LG, Samsung, etc. There is nothing special about LCDs screen in MacBooks other than they use better ones, If you buy a $2k PC laptop you will get an excellent screen too, if you buy a $500 PC laptop you get cheap screen, nothing unusual here. They break just as often as any other piece of electronic, there is no magic. Apple had (still has) massive recalls on laptop batteries (bulging, leaking, overheating), G5 and Intel iMac screens and power supplies are known to be problematic. The entire first generation of iMac G5 was a lemon with failure rate close to 75%. The first generation of PowerMac G5 was another lemon with heat sensor and motherboard failures. The liquid cooled G5 was a disaster. The original white Intel iMacs have overheating issues. I really don't know where people get the notion that Apple hardware is so superior. It's an urban myth.

Being a closed platform is the only advantage (or disadvantage, depending how you look at it) of a Mac.

I got into computers 5 years ago,and had nothing but trouble with my PC's,glitching, freezing up and seemingly endless virus troubles. My brother and my son in law(both IT guys) were i think, getting tired of fixing my endless problems with PC's and recommended i get a Mac. I was told its a good" computer for dummies".Lol. Ive had this little(white) Mac Book for 3.5 years with no repairs,no glitches,no freeze ups,and can go anywhere i like with no virus's troubles. Oh and when this forum switched to the new upgrade i had no problems like alot of PC guys did. It simply does what i want, what can i say. Admittedly i dont know much about computers but for me Macs work.

Im not a fanboy or a trendy guy im 64 years old, way to old for either to matter and i dont recommend Macs to others as i dont want too many using them or we will likely get all the virus crap as well. I dont care what you all use! All im saying is the Mac works for me or i woulda given up computers and missed out on a whole other world that computers put one in. If i was savvy enough to have kept PC's working i would have seen no reason to switch.

As far as saddles go Brooks works for me and some of the other ones recommended dont ,its individual what works and im just happy i found both work for me.

Again i dont care what you all use,just so long as your happy, what ever floats your boat. But i do get a little tired of the stupid name calling by some who dont agree with others choices,but i guess thats the nature of being human. Im learning to develop a thicker skin.
For what its worth,why get all smug about what you use,its just things which really dont matter in the grand scheme of things. It really dont matter. Sheeeesh!

Adam
The final comments were not directed at you about being smug,just generalizing about some folks silly attitudes. Your comments were valid.

And I wasn't saying Macs are bad, they're fine machines and the lack of viruses (a result of closed platform with small market share) is a definitive advantage but they're not the holy miracle devices that many people describe them to be :D

How reliable a computer is largely depends on the person who uses it. Macs are not foolproof, I saw people people mess up Macs so badly you wouldn't believe it was possible. And I saw people running XP boxes for 5+ years without a single issue.

I happen to use and work with both PCs and Macs, probably 60% Macs, 40% PCs. I'd recommend a Mac to anyone without hesitation, unless they have some specific needs that Macs can't fulfill. I just don't like how people exaggerate the awesomeness of a Mac without understanding the machine itself.

The thing that did it for me (only a few months ago) was having to choose between a fast, interruption-free machine and a virus-free machine.

I had my old XP machine running like a top for 5 years. No problems. Whenever I had a virus program on it (AVG) it was a slow dog. I reasoned to myself: "Well, viruses seem to come from email attachments, and I'm very careful about which email attachments I open, so to hell with it." and I took it off. The machine was instantly twice as fast. Then one fateful day, I got that nasty virus that pretends to be an virus alert. Maybe I mis-handled it, but I tried to install an antivirus program at that point, and it didn't work. I wound up re-installing and going back to factory specs. Couldn't recover my photos from the last 5 years. I got most of them back from CDs and such, but probably 20% are gone forever. As I sat there updating all the software to the way I had it pre-virus, I thought: "Why am I doing this? This computer is 5 years old and I hate the virus thing. I'm going to try a Mac."

I use the Mac for 90% of everything now. But I still have to keep the PC going (with antivirus software) to run my scanner and laser printer, neither of which have Mac drivers available. (grumble)

Yeah, most antivirus programs for Windows are a bloated, ugly mess. I used AVG for years, stayed away from Symantec and McAfee bloatware. Now I use Microsoft Security Essentials, that turned out to be surprisingly decent, on Windows 7 and it works well. The hardware is a lot more powerful too, so antivirus software doesn't tax it so much. But still, no safer way for now but to run OSX.

What keeps (kept) me from using a Mac at home:

- Lack of games (although less important as I quit gaming)
- Garmin Map Source GPS software (although can run well inside a virtual machine)
- iMacs are too limited and MacPros are too expensive, I like tower computers with lost of drive bays (this is my biggest issue)

My portable needs are served well by an iPhone and a netbook, I have no needs for an expensive laptop. Apple laptops are decent but there are some design flaws that would make them useless for me, but we're already hijack this thread so I won't elaborate.

Back to the Brooks saddles....

You were saying?

JeremyZ: Check this out

Adam: Would you know how you get AVG to stop setting your browser for Yahoo-only searches.

Well, at the risk of taking this thread back to where it started, I got the B67 the other day and it didn't hurt as soon as I got on it, so that's good. I'm a little sore today, but I went from a really soft saddle to a hard leather saddle, so I'm sure I need to get used to riding a harder saddle. I think I got a hint of numbness this morning, but I'm not sure. I need to give it another week or so and get a longer ride in. At least I was dreading getting on my bike this morning like I was with the B17.

The springs are noisy, but it hurts much less when I hit bumps.

I'm not taking that bait. Nice try.

It'll soften up pretty quickly if you keep riding on it, apply the Proofide, and have it at the right angle. (i.e. back far enough that it takes some weight off of your wrists and prostate area, but forward far enough that it isn't causing numbness in your weiner. I've read that the sprung models don't break in as quickly as the unsprung ones, which makes sense. The most important thing is to get it to a comfortable angle.

Keep us posted in this thread, and also, feel free to troll on computer platform faith too!

Dear gods, a Brooks thread got derailed to a Mac vs Pc flamewar? I guess it really can happen anywhere.

That being said I like PC's, Mac's are so simple it hurts my brain, and its easier to build your own PC.

Back on topic:

I'll argue this. When ordering Brooks saddles from Harris, they describe the Flyer as "The Flyer is most appropriate for cyclists who set their handlebars about the same height as their saddles, or perhaps a bit higher.".
Whereas the unsprung B17 models, such as the Imperial, are described as: "The B17 is most appropriate for cyclists who set their handlebars about the same height as their saddles, or a bit lower.".

I hope to prove this soon. I've had a Flyer since march, and I hate, hate hate it. Can't ride more than 12 miles without numbness, no matter how I position it on the bike. I'm returning it to Wallingford Bike, and have ordered an Imperial. This is to go on my T700, which has the bars about an inch below the saddle. With any luck I'm hoping that will solve the saddle problem I've had on this bike.

I've seen plenty of people with about that amount of drop still comfortably using a B-17. If you have the saddle relatively level instead of nose-up, and keep your hips rolled back instead of trying to tuck yourself down all aero-racer style, then you're probably fine. I'm going to venture a guess and say you've probably got long arms, and are more upright than the average rider using a similar bike setup?

I'm so excited that my new bike I bought comes standard with a brooks honey colored Swift saddle. Can't wait to break it in.

I have B17s on all three of my bikes, and I found them comfortable out of the box. YMMV.

Well, it still hurts, but I'm trying to ride through it. I don't *think* I'm getting the numbness issues, but I haven't been out for more than 17 miles in a stretch. However, I'm noticing the sides are flaring out and causing rubbing. It hasn't started hurting yet, but it's pretty annoying and I'm thinking it will start to chaff on the longer rides. Is this normal? I've only ridden it 100 or so miles.. I'm not really sure of the exact number since spring wreaks havoc with my recreational riding schedule.

Editted to add:

I've never really given Mac a fair shake because I can't get past the cost. I've tried using Ubuntu and really liked it, but found the lack of flash support to be annoying, although I guess that's coming. For every day use, the lack of commercial programs like TaxCut is frustrating. I realize that wouldn't be a problem with that Mac, but then I get the cost thing. I can get PCs for free on a pretty regular basis, with a windows license.

Did you buy from wallbike.com? If so, just return it. If not, put it on ebay with a small price reduction.

BROOKS are not for everyone. I love mine, but then I like eating SPAM for lunch and guzzling coffee in the heat of the day.

Yea.. I bought if from wallbike.com.. I'm just trying to gauge if I'm being intolerant of this new saddle or if it really isn't for me. I don't know where to go next on my quest for a long distance comfort bike seat. I'm thinking about the Terry Liberator.. saw someone around these parts recommending it. There's a few styles though..

Well, I ordered the Terry Liberator Y from Nashbar today. I'm going to be returning the B67 tomorrow. The sides flaring out are actually causing sores to develop on the back of my legs. It seems some lacing might fix it, but I don't want to do that in the event the saddle never gets comfortable.

I love my new Brooks B17 honey saddle! After 3 applications of Proofide, went for a good ride today, and it was the most comfortable saddle