gnesterenko

So I picked up commuting to work on my Steel Surly Pacer. Great ride. Put on new Mavic Open Pro/Ultegra hub wheels at the end of last season and rode through a good amout of winter using that.

About a month ago I crashed for the first time, albeit not badly. Bike seemed OK, made it to work and back home. That weekend, tried to take it out only to notice that I broke two spoke nipples - and 2 more broke before I got it to the shop. So I had them basically rebuild the wheel with all new spokes. Problem is, still using aluminum, and 32 spoke wheels.
The guy at the LBS told me that it wasn't really the crash that caused the damage, but rather aggrevated it, and it was the fact that I rode in wet winter conditions that allowed water/salt to get into the nipples, which corroded them and caused them to break after the crash (not 6 months of use!)

So I'm thinking, I'll keep my wheel-set for spring/summertime but get a beefier wheelset for fall/winter rides. That way I can throw 36 spoke rims on there, get nicer tires for wet conditions, and finally the need for a choice of better spokes/nipples for the conditions. Did some reading and it seems that making a wheelset of Titanium spoke & nipples will give me the durability I desire out of my wheels. My route to work is not perfect - lots switching on/off busy streets, uneven paving, potholes, curbs, the works. Add to that snow/sleet and it can get pretty nasty.

So I come here looking for advice. Anyone have any thoughts on using Titanium all around (I realize the cost of said wheelsets will increase significantly due to the TI)? Would steel spokes work just as well? What about Nipples? Benefit to Steel/Brass over TI? Weight is not much of a concern for me - durability is.

Thanks!

"The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."

m_yates

36 spoke wheels are probably all you need...with brass nipples and stainless spokes. I've never heard of using titanium, and plenty of people ride in winter using brass nipples and stainless spokes. Aluminum nipples are bad because they are more likely to crack.

chaadster

I'm a 210lb guy who rides 32 spoke, brass nipple, straight gauge stainless 700c commuter wheels, and have for years, without problems. I've always been pretty good at picking lines and "finesse" riding, so that may be a factor, but I also ride Michigan roads, down stairs, and generally monkey around. My point being that a 32 spoke should do just fine, I'd think. Just make sure you get a good build that's properly tensioned. I've also built my own wheels, with miserable results, so I know wheelbuilding ain't to be taken lightly!

illwafer

check out velocity synergy or dyad rims. trade your ultegra hubs for some 36 hole ones (105s work great).

x136 

A wheelset's worth of DT Swiss straight gauge spokes will run you about $35. A wheelset's worth of Marwi titanium spokes will run you more like $200-300. Just for spokes.

Titanium-spoked wheels are harder to build, are under higher tension, and stretch.

As others have said, just build up some 32- or 36-hole wheels with stainless spokes and brass nipples.

Andy_K 

Where did you get your Ultegra/Open Pros? Problems like you describe could have been caused by a bad wheel build. Not knowing more about your crash, it's hard to say if that was a factor. I don't see any reason that a properly built set of wheels shouldn't hold up to winter riding.

tsl

The only change you need is to brass nipples.

Thing is, they come free, right in the box with DT-Swiss stainless spokes. Then people pay extra for aluminum nipples that fail after riding them on anything but pleasant sunny days.

My primary commuter sees rain in the three seasons and then four months of road salt every day. Aluminum rims, stainless spokes, and brass nipples--never a problem. My backup commuter sees rain only--aluminum rims, stainless spokes, and brass nipples--never a problem.

The point is that throwing money at it, by buying aluminum nipples to replace the free brass ones, is exactly what caused the problem. Throwing more money at it with exotic materials isn't the cure either. After replacing the aluminum nipples, put your wallet back in your pocket.

gnesterenko

Baught the wheelset from Performance Bicycles - think it came pre-built to the shop and I doubt they tensioned them, though can't say for sure.

In any case, at this point, you've all convinced me. 36 spoke hubs with straight guage steel spokes/brass nipples and some fatter tires is what I'll be building sometime before fall comes around. Will check out the aforementioned velocity synergy/dyad rims too.

Thanks all!

"The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."

cycle_maven

Yeah, I have two pairs of the Ultegra/Open Pro wheelsets from Performance, and both needed to be tensioned and stress-relieved. But they're both pretty solid now, no broken spokes and still true after a couple thousand miles.

rayhead00

clean and lube your spokes and nipples. seriously.

Andy_K 

It's my understanding that Performance's Ultegra/Open Pro wheelsets are machine-built. Sometimes they come out great -- sometimes not so good.

Brass nipples can't hurt. Unless you're a heavy rider or carry a lot of weight, I think 36-spoke wheels are overkill. I weigh around 200 pounds, and I've been commuting and cyclocross racing on 32-spoke (double butted) wheels for a few years with no problems. YMMV

I recently built a set of wheels myself, and while I'm sure their not as well-built as wheels I could have gotten from an expert wheel builder, I'm very happy with how they turned out and I definitely recommend the experience.

jtgotsjets

That bike shop knew you were thinking about titanium and heard "ka-ching!"

I don't buy from telepathic bike shops.

Drew Eckhardt 

Straight gauge spokes are more likely to fail due to fatigue since they concentrate the stress at the elbows.

Thinner spokes actually produce stronger wheels since they stretch more for a given tension so an impact can deform your rim farther before it becomes unsupported laterally due to the spokes loosing tension.

14/15 gauge double butted spokes are probably the best overall choice.

If you follow _The Bicycle Wheel_ you can build your own wheels as good as you can buy, although you'll spend a lot longer building them than some one with more experience.

AdamDZ

Forget titanium. As mentioned above: brass nipples, DT spokes and stronger rims will work fine for you. I believe Open Pro are light racing rims, not very strong.

Andy_K 

"Light" -- agree
"Racing" -- maybe
"Not very strong" -- disagree

njkayaker

Straight gauge spokes are just cheap. Double-butted are better.