Bikideshi

Okay. Yesterday, an SUV speeds downtown doing 40 in a 25 mph zone, barely bothering to move his arse to the left lane to accomodate me. After hearing about one person who got nearly killed by a speeding driver, I felt disinclined to just ride away and hide. I chased them, caught up with them and they were laughing their heads off. I gave a thump to the back of their car to let them know I didn't appreciate that. I thought thumping the metal to be a nondamaging way to express my malcontent about the situation. Native americans engaged in warfare which didn't involve killing- just merely touching your enemy to let them know that they could have killed them should they wanted to. Works great with the bike; or so I thought. Adrenaline turned the thump strong enough to create a scarcely perceptible flattening of the arc in the siding on the car. Well, the a-hole driver calls the cops. Accuses me of waving a bat I had with me at him falsely. Gets me arrested for menacing harassment. I tell the cops about the speeding. The cop says, "Who are you to judge that; do you have a radar gun?" I said it was plainly obvious he was speeding and could have killed a pedestrian. Also note that the guy, when I persued him further ran about 3 stoplights. I never got his tags. Guess I don't need to now. The cops may have dropped it, but he kept talking and pressing the issue. A companion I ran into who observed these happenings noted that the SUV driver behaved like the typical "cracker" (slang for white rich a-hole in urban dialect). Acted like he was loaded and stuff. Not only this, but the cop procedes to start waving the bat around like a lame Bruce Lee wanna be trying to intimidate me. I carry the bat, and I have used it in a way we use it in the peaceful martial art Aikido, which is primarily a defensive art. What I do, was I will poise it to strike but never strike with it, so that if the enemy makes one threating move, I can make a counter move. It's dissuasive. The fact that I can fight back, and that I'll pull it to protect my back if I get an *** behind me speeding, and doing the above said thing, seems to have made drivers more inclined to try to do catty things to me. I can't walk as a pedestrian without getting nearly nailed in crosswalks. They take shots at me whenever they see they can get away with it. No cars have been damaged but I have nearly been killed more than I can stomach. It has got to stop. here people have absolutely no concern for bikes; it's hilly and cold and this city has crappy public transit. In other words EVERYBODY DRIVES AND EVERYBODY IS SWORN ON DEFENDING DRIVING AT ALL COSTS. Even when the weather is unseasonably warm. I still have young people get off from trying to nail me. Mind you, this city has severe problems, particularly with ignorance since it's buried in the heart of the midwest. All I can say is that there is a civil rights boycott on this town, and I beseech everyone to encourage business/ entertainment to honor this boycott. I have seen arrogance on the part of the cops that is quite frankly disturbing, and with Luken as mayor, you can count on things being conservative and rotten. To think we had a female, cyclist mayor at one point. What went wrong? Luken came in and bike lane projects which were promised were shelved. Urban sprawl has made even the local drivers reel in terror from maniac speeding SUV's. Too much traffic, to much travel time, too little space. This means freeway gridlock and idiots jutting down sidestreets atleast 15-20 over the speed limit at rush hour. 'Driving is a right, isn't it?' They think, well I should be home in 15 minutes- even if I live 12 miles away. I can't ride here for anything. If I do anything for self-defense, I get vilified. I even get harassed with noise in the place of my residence. People who are good hearted are leaving in droves. Boy, what a mess. Top this off with having a county sheriffs van screech around a corner to scare the heck out of me, just prior to the SUV incident. This may be with my association with protests which only entailed showing up with a camera, for christsakes!! Think that this is too off the wall? See, hear and read what happened during the TABD protests and the Justice March for Timothy Thomas. The photo on this page is of a girl getting pepper sprayed at point blank range down her throat. Scroll down for some material on local protests. https://www.angelfire.com/oh5/hazen/part2.html
This page here shows some video of what happened.
https://www.angelfire.com/oh5/hazen/urls2.html
It's kind of mixed because at the TABD there was minor incident of vandalism. However, tons of people were beaten, maced and pepper sprayed. There really is a whole dimension to all protests everywhere that just isn't being reported in the business subservient press. When six major conglomerate control our media it is time to panic about some major conflict of interest issues. Kinda like the whole Enron fiasco. Where there's smoke there's fire. So bear with me, and check this stuff out. Maybe offroad trails crossing town are the best way to go to avoid cyclist fatalities. I really hate the idea of seeing people hurt and killed. I've already seen one person get nailed at the foot of a hill, and there are no messengers left here. Urban sprawl is a bad, bad, thing. This cartoon make me laugh about it, though!!
https://derfcity.com/o/farmsprawl.html

Bikideshi

Here is a drivers account of how the SUV traffic has gotten royally out of hand here. I love what the guy has to say and how he says it!! (It ain't just me!!) https://www.goxray.com/cgi-bin/xray_search/search.pl

Bikideshi

OOPS. I thought I found the specific article there. HERE is the article on the SUV problem (apologies) https://goxray.com/index3.htm#motown

Oxymoron

Bikideshi,
You should checkout the thread I started in "Advocacy" titled "Asphalt Nation". It wouldn't suprise me if you've already read this book.

mike

I think you know your mistake was kicking the car - turning emotion into physical aggression. You can never win in that sitution.

You should have called the cops. Remember that the guy who calls the cops first is usually assumed to be in the right.

I have found that if you take down the critical information and call the cops, they will usually do something about it. Get your wife or girlfriend or sister to cry loudly in the background when you call and speak as if the driver is a madman - a clear and present danger to all and seemed drunk too.

RegularGuy

Sorry...but you lost me when you said you carry a weapon. Sure, the guy was a SOB in a SUV. Sure, the cop was a macho bozo. But, you were carrying a weapon, and you damaged a car. Your argument that the club is only for defensive posturing doesn't wash with me. The same could be said of a handgun. "I only use it to scare the bad guys." But let's face it, anyone who carries a gun had better be ready to use it. And showing a weapon--gun, knife, or club--is an act of aggression.

Bikideshi

I carry a baseball bat mounted to frame of bike. I never drew it or draw it except to defend myself. I don't carry anything else worse. The question I have is well, if you are repeately harassed by two ton murder weapon, being used by those notorious for having little respect for even other drivers (note road rage) what do you do? Like a bat (aluminum with carbon fiber core) is going to do anything against that. I'm not saying use it. I was against the idea until a car full of kids really did try to run me down. I realized that I only had an air pump to defend myself and that this was less than useless. The idea of forking out $30 dollars each time I get attacked is completely ridiculous. People also treat you like you are stupid for cycling, as it is. They think they have the right to kill you since you do that which they see as stupid. I think this article may give you an idea on where some drivers minds are at. They really feel justified in murdering. Here one woman talks about how cyclists should be hit in some California paper. She claims they are a menace like deer, and this makes them dangerous, so killing them teaches them a lesson.
https://www.cincinnaticycleclub.org/bikelaw/bikelaw.htm (it's in the 3rd paragraph).
I am sorry but there is never any excuse for a driver to harass or kill a cyclist.

Bikideshi

I didn't kick the car. I struck it with my fist. I have had many problems on the road, and by that time I was panicking about what happens next time I'm not so alert. The dent is scarcely even exists. You have to really stare at it to notice it . There is no concave recession of the car's body. It was only because the SUV driver kept pressing the issue, and that the cop didn't like cyclists with bats, that they spent an hour with a magnifine glass looking for a paint chip the size of one micron. That isn't the best move; my friend reminded me that these SUV's don't have all that thick metal on the sides. It's the bumper and frame that are killers on those. This person works on cars, so they would have known well about this. Trust me, there have been far uglier shopping cart nicks, and you don't have the cops called about that. It was all a power play. If you bike for a long time, and witness attack upon attack upon your person (sorry, I endured 3 years of this before carrying a lousy bat) you eventually have to fear that some people may not be too fond you know they are killers. I always look to see who did whatever. If the cops won't do anything (they are usually ignorant of bike laws and assume you are breaking the law for riding) you atleast know who not assist if they get into any trouble. It also keeps me from getting burned in other arenas of life. Maybe I've been car free enough, I've numbed out the the rushing anxiety of a driver. You know, those panicked feelings you get racing to work, since you are burning the candle at both ends to make car payments. I forget the art of rationalizing the hitting of any obstacles, human or animal, in my path. I just got too far into the vision of seeing people able to enjoy life, since they aren't going postal trying to make ends meet to pay for a form of transit which is efficient as walking, in the end. While I respect the fear that some have of biking, the realities of driving don't speak in it's favor. Social and economic problems are created when energy/ resources are wasted. I'd like to have more of a cordial relationship with drivers. But that's no more real than wishing for world peace or something. No lions and lambs lying down together here. I try to be nice. I also try not to be dead!!

Richard D

Bikideshi,

Mike's right - aggressive retaliation isn't the way to deal with this sort of incident, nor in my view is carrying a weapon.

If you carry on using aggression and confrontational methods all you're likely to do is endanger your self.

It's not being a cowardly victim to use the proper channels to try and do something about an incident of dangerous driving, and you're more likely to have some success. Report strictly the facts to the police keeping your politics out of it or they'll label you an-'anti-car nutter' and not take the incident seriously. If you give them a factual account perhaps you might get the police to at least have a word with the driver. It probably won't change the driver's behaviour that much but I think your method is only likely to make him even more anti-cyclist.

Richard

D*Alex

Gee, bikedishi, you really sound like an upstanding member of the community-I can't imagine why the cops would think otherwise....

thbirks

Bikideshi, this thread is disturbing to me. I think it should have been titled "I punched a car and got arrested" I understand your frustration, but maybe you have been car-free too long. The suv that you see as a minion of satan is the same vehicle that the driver has spent a lot of money on. Hey, people really do love their cars. You go around hitting them and eventually you will punch the wrong one. There's a thread around here about a messenger who slapped a SUV after it nearly hit him. The driver then proceeded to run him over and kill him. Can you say REGRET?

Seriously, I'm sure that in martial arts they teach you to have control. You need to be abe to control yourself in order to control a situation.

Think about this. This "cracker" now gets to tell his friends how he was driving around harassing a cyclist. Then the cyclist catches up to him and physically harms his car. So he calls the cops and the cyclist gets arrested. Great story, huh. Here's slang for you; You played yourself.

D*Alex

.............and the sad thing is, when the news media does a story on the local "bike culture", it's always guys like this one they interview for the 11:00 news.

Oxymoron

Bikideshi,
I personally am a proponent of non-violence. I have found ways of infuriating people without doing a thing. But frankly I'm not really doing anything because they're angry anyways. If a driver is going to hate me I at least like to know it wasn't anything I did. Of course by holding all my frustration in instead of taking it out on the drivers who tick me off, I either sit at home and fume and feel misearlbly depressed about the state of human affairs, or I vent to my wife and give my misery a little company. So I understand where you are coming from. You bike in a dangerous city and feel vulnerable. Work on your Aikido and you won't feel you need the bat. Use the defensive aspect of it to flow effortlessly through any danger. BTW I'll bet Jackie Chan could use the bike itself as a weapon in many humorous ways.

Bikideshi

I gave some rather exteme sounding ideas before, but christ I don't use them, nor do I suggest using them, except in situations like the subject of the thread I was commenting on, where someone was persued by attackers and was scared for their life. They had to hide in the bushes to evade them and almost didn't. I don't know where you live, but where I live there are rednecks and quite frankly, they don't adhere to the normal rules of civilized conduct. There is one school of thought which is that if you are nice the world will be wonderful. I try to be nice whenever possible. However, if you are under attack by some idiot who sees a bike and just assumes you are going to go no more than 5mph, and take the whole lane you have to do something. The problem is that where I live, biking isn't normalized. The streets aren't accomodated to bikes, there is a massive theft problem so no one does it. Drivers think no one bikes because they are heavy. They don't know that you can park a mountain bike on a 3rd floor balcony with a U-lock the size of Utah, and still lose the damn thing. Mark Twain said that he wanted to die in Cincinnati since everything happens 10 years later here. The white drivers are afraid of you because they think you are a genetic mutant or a lunatic or something, if you are the last biker left. Thus, they have no compunction against killing you- I mean after all, you must be biking because you are POOR right. Well for a city, that isn't exactly concerned about the fact that it has the greatest rich/poor gap in the US, I can hardly expect kind treatment here. Add this to prejudice people have that environmentalists are all militants. This has been hammering me so hard for the past year (unwarranted violence) that at the time I wrote the other post, I was well on my way to working becoming more militant myself. It's a lose lose situation. Bike theft won't stop here as long as whites are seen as apathetic and evil here, and the education system rots here in the city. We have public schools with buckets out to catch ceiling drips. I think you would have to come here and bike to grasp the situation. It's also a documented fact that urban sprawl increases agressive driving. People have to drive here, so too many do it, and too many defend the sins others commit behind the wheel. It's not like it's civilization here; after all, every Christmas, the KKK gets to put their crosses on Fountain Square. Read the column at https://citybeat.com/2002-03-14/porkopolis.shtml
(be sure to check back issues) to get a good idea of how this place operates. You will be amazed. For the record, I do believe that being nice on the road is important. People however have very convenient memory losses about how they use their cars violently to vy for the position of top dog on the road. Just read the articles I posted to get an idea of how it really is. SUV's even do it to small cars. People have been complaining about that for years, and there have been more fatal crashes involving SUV's here recently.

Bikideshi

I have really had an ongoing problem with drivers, well before I did anything but be the nice, submissive courteous, biker. I did this for 3 years. I still try. Then some idiot comes along, and you carry a bat so you are prepared for that one incident. Well, that just scares the rest of everyone. I think it also makes them want to intimidate you, so you won't use it. JUst like they try to intimidate you with attemptive murder so they never have to lose 3 seconds waiting behind a cyclist. It's all absurd. I've thought the best weapon would be a video camera, however, the logistics of this seem pretty difficult. A digital camcorder is about $800 dollars and this is the only thing I know that I can get small enough to place on the bike without hassle. I'd like to videotape this jazz I go through, to both let the world know that I am telling the truth and so I have something to use for legal action. IF ANYONE HAS ANY SUGGESTIONS ON HOW TO DO VIDEO STUFF ON A BIKE LET ME KNOW. This stuff would get noncyclists really aware of what life is like for us. I mean, I can't even get some people to believe that there are people who kill on the road. It's too much for them. It's easier for them to blame the most vulnerable party instead of getting angry at who they should. Does anyone ever put as much scrutiny on drivers as they do on cyclists. It's just like how **** victims are blamed for **** because of what they were wearing. What I was hoping to achieve with cycling is to find some way that didn't involve anything nasty like firearms. That, in my opinion, is definately not a good solution. The bat I carry so I can whip it out behind me to give the driver who's speeding behind me, the problem of not hitting something soft should he hit me. Aikido teaches swordplay almost exclusively in blocking strikes. A staff is raised above one's head and held with both hands, to protect the head, for example. Well, I can hold the bat with both hands or one and use it to dampen the impact of a driver hitting me. It's better than praying your bone's will survive whatever cars dish out. All I know is that it can be over for you reallly quick out there. Defense is not a bad thing. It can be lied about by any ornerary driver, though, as it was in my case. The car only had a dent which recessed 1mm. That's not damage, in my book. Shopping carts leave far more ugly scars than what was left on that car. I've had deeper dents left in from people opening car doors into my car. You couldn't see anything unless you stared for 20 minutes like that cop did. I want to see shopping cart denters brought on the same charges as I was, or worse. That seems fair to me!! My friend did say, that was a stupid idea, since SUV's have flimsy side metal- it's only the frame which is sturdy. The strength of the paneling they make cars out of has changed a bit since when the one I had was built.

thbirks

The tone of my previous post was a little harsh, but I believe what I said was accurate. Hey some idiot in a van just ran into a ditch across the street. The road I live on has become a racetrack. Everyone else in Jersey lives in Cul-de-sacs in order to get some relief from the traffic. Bikideshi, as I said before I understand your frustration. No one in NJ bikes to get around either, if they do it's because they are the working poor or have lost their driver's license. I feel like an outcast here.

But you know what? If it were making me feel like you must feel then I would pack a bag and leave. I do plan on leaving and moving somewhere much more biking friendly, but it won't be for a few years, so I make the best of the situation.

From your posts, It sounds as if you are burnt out. You need to get away. Cinninati sounds like hell. Actually, it sound alot like Jersey.

sunnybear

The car only had a dent which recessed 1mm. That's not damage, in my book. (bikedishis quote)


I have been following this thread since the "occurrence" and also find it a bit disturbing. If someone came up and bashed my Wilier or Bianchis top tube in 1 mm I most certainly WOULD call it damage, especially if it were intentional and here is the sticking point. Accidents are just that and that is why we call them "accidents" If my son or one of his friends accidentally knocked my bike over and put a dent in it , then I would be disappointed but rational thought dictates the fact that it were not intentional. Punching a car is not an accident therefore the label of intentional "damage" comes into play. Why not just carry a gun ablow the poor *****s tires out or something. I understand the cause and the reason for the frustration at where you live and I feel empathy for your situation, but in no way can justify the reasons you want to give in justifying your actions.

PaulH

I find this a disturbing thread also. Why not carry a digital camera instead of a bat and use it to document unsafe driving? This way, you are working with the police to help improve safety for all road users.

PaulH

Oxymoron

I still really wonder if anyone has ever beat someone up Jackie Chan style using their bike as a weapon. I read about a guy in Colorado who beat a man to death with a bong.

salamibender

First I could only get through half of that post, before I moved on. By reacting you are allowing that person(s) control your life like you are a puppet. If you want to play Johhny Law, take the test and see if you can cut it. If you want to play Bruce Lee you should have pulled along side the vehicle and pulled them out of the vent window.
Best bet if you are that ticked off is get a description of the driver, and license plate number and sign a citizen complaint,(traffic ticket) for the alleged violation.

cyclezealot

I think there is a natural prejudice against the bike culture, among the macho motorist. Without the bike present, motor rage is just that. Just a couple nights ago, I came home on a hilly twisty road into town. I was driving my Jetta. Directly in front of me were two pick up trucks. One pick up truck passed another on a double line. The now passed truck driver became enraged. The truck having been passed tried to pass the truck on the right in the bike lane.This was being done by attempting to push the first truck over into on-coming traffic. The road was still a double line and they did not care if on-coming traffic was present or not.
Had the truck being pushed into the on-coming lane encountered an oncoming car, there would have been an accident. Probably into me. The first truck eventually passed another car illegally and sped ahead.
I got the license plate number of the passed truck. called the police, told them the entire incident could have threatened my life and reported the incident.
The state patrol just said we did not experience it and ignored my call. Said, if I had a cell phone, I should have called at the time.
I thought, maybe they might send out a letter or something. Don't care what anyone says, I have never have met a cyclists this much of an idiot. Cars are bad for your physical and mental health.
I have ordered the book Asphalt Nation, hope it goes into mental stresses of the car culture. As a cyclist, I am getting to despise automobiles. Don't get me started on the habits I notice in truck drivers.

surreal

thbirk, re: new jersey and bikes and stuff...

i s'pose i am "working poor", or arguably so...i guess i work and i'm poor, plus im still (still!) going to college, so i dunno where i fit. i own a car(it's going on ebay tomorrow) and i own a motorbike(but it needs work). i'm all about the bicycle commuting primarily as a health thing, a cost-cutting thing, and an environmental thing, basically in the order. actually, the cost-cutting is a huge factor, too.

i see lots of ppl in the cherry hill area riding on 4 lane highways and the like, but no one seems to be commuting much. i more get the impression that they're riding for fun/health on weekends.

it's wierd; i bought the bike thinking i was gonna ride it now and again for fun. now, a few months later, i'm wanting to get rid of the automobile. i'm finding myself considering bikeability when i discuss where we're gonna try to find jobs when we're ready to move on. definitely not what i expected.

i imagine bicycling in the PB's is pretty crazy, huh? how far do you ride to work?

ttyl,
-rob

RacerX

youre carrying around a bat mounted to your bike. You hit a car when they did nothing to you.

You know, we all have close calls on the bike unfortunately close calls are not illegal unless it is wreckless. And that still is no justification for what you did.

The cop is right. You are wrong and you should give yourself an attitude check so you don't ruin it for every other biker that lives in your area.

Instead of mounting a bat, why don't you mount a phone to your bike.

cyclebuzz

I usually carry an AK47 strapped to my main bar and some hand grenades, buts its really just for peaceful defensive posturing though. Im with you big guy, but calm down on the old armaments will you, you will give us a bad name

kf5nd

why is this in the commuting area, it should be in the mental health area