This is fallacious. The amount of gas you do not burn does very little to affect others' affordability of driving and therefore increased consumption by someone else. Joe Schmo is unlikely to do increased driving simply because you are biking, even when a (slight) decrease in gas price is considered. Witness to this is that people's driving habits change relatively little until you see a major spike in gas prices. People will drive what they need (or feel they need) to drive for. My biking won't affect that except very indirectly and slightly.

Don't get me wrong - I know much of the green movement is simply marketing (witness the hybrids with more footprint than an SUV). But not all of it is. Re-usable bags, for example, reduce garbage sent to the landfills, and has zero effect on someone else's usage. Basically, the attitude that "Someone will burn what I save" is fatalistic and akin to "My one vote won't count for anything".

You are correct that me riding a bike (by myself) has no measurable effect on the world, which is another reason why I ride for me, not the rest of the world. Millions of additional cyclists could have measurable effects on the price of fossil fuels. However, I think it is realistic to expect people to continue to burn fossil fuels until extracting these fuels becomes a zero sum gain (until it burns as much energy to extract than you get out of it). We are near or at peak oil now, so, unless you can convince the entire world to abandon use of fossil fuels, cyclists, will have no real effect on the rate of consumption. We can't consume fuel any faster than we are now. If hundreds of thousands of Americans abandon the car in droves, others will willingly consume whatever we save. Therefore, I do not believe that cycling to save the earth is a worthwhile endeavor. There are better reasons to cycle.

Recycleable shopping bags are a good thing, I agree. I think my point is that most "green" marketing suggests that you can save the earth without really altering your lifestyle. To have a real global impact, serious lifestyle alterations, by millions and millions of people are necessary. It is unlikely that millions upon millions of people will do this willingly. More likely, resource scarcity, will force these changes at some point in the future. If and when that happens, it will be painful. For the people who are least dependent on fossil fuels, the transition will still be painful, but less painful.

This.

someone on a group ride invited me to his global-warmist event and I politely declined, saying I wasn't really into the whole environmental scene. he looked at me as if I had kicked his dog.

and yes, I'm a registered republican.

//Rant warning!

I think what ticks the OP off is that average (small minded) person thinks that anyone who rides a bike to work must have either lowly economical reasons or some higher, profound environmental or political reasons to do so. It doesn't occur to them that for most people biking isn't a tool for making political or social statements (although it can be) but that most people do it just for fun, it's just beyond their small minds' grasp. People associate non-recreational biking with weirdness, fringe activity for strange people, they don't get the basic ideas behind utility and commuter biking: fun, simplicity, freedom, etc. They also can't grasp the fact that some of us want to live away from all the "goodness" that our wonderful civilization is throwing at us - except for the latest in bike technology and outdoor gadgetry :D It's beyond them that someone would prefer to wander around woods to see the real world rather than to sit in front of 60" TV, or that someone would rather pedal with 50lbs of camping gear on their racks, rather than driving a "comfortable" SUV.

Although, I also agree that the OP gets a little too bent out of shape over this. Relax, people will never get it. For me being green is like tertiary reason, after all others, a side effect. I don't believe that I'm making any difference but, to some degree, I enjoy the thought of not adding any more to the damage being done to nature. However, recently I started making more effort to limit the use of my car and I think not burning fossil fuels for short daily errands and saving energy in general is becoming a source of quiet satisfaction and maybe even pride for me. Although, officially this is still about fun and fitness. In the end cycling is a combination of many things, some deliberate and some incidental.

So, next time someone says that to you, think "yeah, I do it for myself mainly, but incidentally yeah, I am helping the planet a tiny, tiny, tiny bit, and you don't!" and smile :D Let the small minded people walk away with their happy thoughts, no need to change that, and don't let them spoil your fun.

I know it's easy to say, but myself I've been on a quest to become impervious to stupidity, arrogance and small-mindedness while cycling and beyond. I'm working on ignoring this kind of people, treating them as obstacles and noise. I was getting too worked up about arrogant and disrespectful cyclists and pedestrians, but I'm learning to rise above that. Let them live inside their miserable bubbles, unaware of the world around them. It's all background noise. Enjoy the ride, and know that what you're doing is right and good for you and don't waste your energy on trying to educate and enlighten those who are not capable of being educated and enlightened.

//end of rant

You think thats bad. My university (I'm a professor) started a bike share program. Only problem is the campus is nowhere near where the students live and the campus is too small to need a bike for riding from one part to another. So basically they wasted a bunch of money and energy buying several tons worth of custom bikes, and no one rides them.....ever. They are literally sitting in front of every building chained to bike racks, rotting. Its a bike joke on campus. But the president continues to tout the bike program as one of the major "green" initiatives of the college. Even with this supposed "bike friendly" attitude, I got yelled at last week by one of the "buildings and grounds" head honchos for parking my bike in my office. A few weeks ago, I called the head of security to complain about the reckless driving of security personel. His response was that I should not ride my bike to campus because its too dangerous. I pointed out to both of them that the campus has a bike-share program and that I have been parking my bike in my office for the past six years. So I basically continue to ignore them and ride to campus and park my bike in my office anyway. The stupidity makes me ill.

Just do what this guy does when asked why you ride.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9n_V6XDrL8

My university does the same crap. They pretend to be a leader in many things including being green, but numerous requests from the student groups, faculty and staff for improving the bike storage facility and providing showers and lockers for hundreds of bike commuter fall on def ears, i.e. are ignored. At least they let us take our bikes into the buildings without creating any problems. They waste tons of money on lame ass ad campaigns that no one believes in anyway. Slapping posters all over the place doesn't make one green.

It is up to you to educate them, not complain about them.
Blame is perhaps the easiest of all doctrines to adopt, in that it demands nothing of you but outrage.

Remember, the average Joe Citizen is flooded with Green messages day in and day out. There is an @ss of money and gain to be made from the Eco Revolution. Fortunes and careers are being forged from it as we speak. The advertising and coercion that drives this explosion, both private and government sponsored, is only in it's infancy. SO dont blame the man on the street for unwittingly regurgitating what he is told - he knows no better.

Your greatest challenge, now, is to school and engage him in what matters to you... before he loses the ability to think for himself. Consider it your public service.

My greatest challenge, now, is to find some hippie chick who thinks I'm saving the earth when I ride my bike so I can say "I'm all about saving the earth, Moonbeam. I'd absolutely love to hear some of your poetry."

I'm afraid most people in "modern societies" already lost the ability to think for themselves and there is no undoing it.

Adam

That's assuming she has showered...

They invented hot-tubs back in the 70's... because of the 60's and Moonbeam FlowerChild.

I rode to the farmers market yesterday, not because it's "green", but because I got tired of having to park two blocks away and lug the fruits and veggies back to the van. The bike can be locked up right outside the door and it actually takes only ten minutes longer to ride than to drive. So, I point out the easy parking and lack of a $40 a month parking permit.
I suppose I could also point out that I get to have two bike rides every day, instead of waiting for the weekend to ride in a park. The other day one of my coworkers started moaning about how rainy and cold this summer was. I was puzzled by his statement, because I remember lots of hot sunny days - sometimes too hot and sunny. Then it occurred to me: he's almost never outside. He goes from his apartment, to his car, to work, to his car, to the gym, to his car, to his apartment. He even drives the 1/4 mile or so to the nearest shopping center to get lunch. Because I ride a bike to work, I'm outside for at least 30 minutes of every day, so I actually get to see sunlight when it's around. Hard to explain that kind of connection to the natural elements to someone who only goes outside on weekends.

I also found that due to the NYC traffic and parking issues many errands are easier and less frustrating on a bike than by car. I can't wait to put my new trailer to use :) Although, a trailer will take away some of the advantages of a bike itself (narrow track, agility).

Hence my "Communist plot" comment. Most companies/ organizations use it for a perceived gain that they "Market" when in reality they don't get any gain or improve anything they often loose money paying for "green credits" but really do nothing of any significance if they cant figure out some "marketing gain" to increase sales or government funding.

Nothing fixed.


You know that the company that came up with "cap and trade" carbon redistribution scam one of its largest stake holders is Gore who has made MILLIONS off it. It would destroy a huge amount of businesses because all it is a redistribution scam dealing in "pollution". In reality it will drive more business overseas to countries that don't participate and give that money levied in the form of taxes on "carbon" to the very same "underdeveloped" "poor" countries that "suffer from capitalism of other countries". Sharing the wealth by the gun of the government (taxes) is a "Socialist principle" It results in a elite ruling class and the rest of us are the peasant workers. This time they are using the "green Movement" to do it and the Government to enforce it.

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/cover031307.htm

This is classic!
The redistribution of wealth is very profitable. This says a Chinese company produces extra pollution so they can collect money for destroying that pollution for the 'Green benefit".
http://www.internationalrivers.org/e...-tragedy-farce

That's certainly fair. I would never hop on a bike with the intention of changing the world, either, but that's just me. If I do, then it's a nice side benefit. :)

We're on the same page. :thumb:

Most liberals are environmentally conscious, so I would assume you are. So even if you ride primarily for other reasons, why aren't you also happy that it is green and that people appreciate that component? Why are you disowning that aspect of what you do? Are you concerned you will be viewed as some kind of marginalized hippy tree-hugger and perhaps not taken as seriouslY?

lol

Actually, yes it is.

Hey, we can, like, save precious resources showering together. No use wasting all that water, right? "See, Starchild, I lead a totally green lifestyle."

"I hate hippies! I mean, the way they always talk about "protectin' the earth" and then drive around in cars that get poor gas mileage and wear those stupid bracelets - I hate 'em! I wanna kick 'em in the nuts!" - E. Cartman

;)

I think that's why my coworkers are impressed by my piddly little 5-mile commute - they can't imagine willingly doing something that might make them uncomfortable. To them, a workout is something you do with your iPod in an air-conditioned gym.

I'm not trying to be "green". I can understand why it's annoying for bystanders to assume that bike commuting is done out of a desire to be in on that trend. And a trend is all it is - cosmetic surface changes that make you feel good but don't actually accomplish anything.

If you really want to make a difference, you have to sacrifice something. I'm not sacrificing anything - I bike commute out of necessity.

I didn't say they were.

You can see the confusion there, you told me the planet you were from was warming up and then provide me that list.

BTW, where you going with that anyways?

You were the first to say I was from another planet which was a stupid comment. I just went with the along with it. Who cares?

What are you talking about? Obviously I showed other planets, a moon, "a dwarf planet" is experiencing global warming showing the phenomenon is not caused only by people.

Lets do some math - if I were to drive six miles (round trip) at 26mpg, then I would've used 0.23 gallons of gasoline.

If I were to bike the distance, approximately...20 cars would slow to 15mph and accelerate hard back to ~45. Pulling numbers out of my ..., let's say the typical car cruises at 25mpg, takes 1/4 mile to accelerate, and accelerates at 15mpg. Thus, each car uses an additional ~0.006666 gallons of gas when they accelerate past me. Multiplied by 20... makes 0.13 gallons. Man, what a waste of time.

I thought the stupid comment was other planets are warming up. I was just wondering which one you're from, that might make it relevant.

Every additional cyclist means one less motorist accelerating past you, but one additional cyclist for the remaining motorists to accelerate past. You can't win! But seriously, I think you need to rethink your calculations. At any rate, the fuel spent because of you cycling doesn't come out of your pocket, so its not exactly a waste of time.

Yeah, we short-circuited our university doing something equally stupid by starting a bicycle-recycling program for 1/20th the cost and 20x the effect. When you hire the same management culture that drove our economy into the ground to run our universities, you get the same result.

Jesus Christ people, learn how to think. Whether or not the sun is contributing to global warming, CO2 is a greenhouse gas...this is not debatable. What is debatable is the magnitude of effect fossil fuel consumption will have on Earth's climate in addition to whatever other factors cause natural global change. The earth has been changing and will continue long after people are gone. Large fluctuations in atmospheric CO2 levels have had dramatic effects on climate in the past (for example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleoce...hermal_Maximum), more so than solar fluctuations. There is no reason to believe that increases in CO2 levels will not contribute to warming today. Based on what we know of Earth's history, I'm betting on anthropogenic warming being reality. Note however, that magnitude of the effects are uncertain and the way we will feel these effects may not be obvious. For instance, the ocean is a giant heat sink and is absorbing most of the additional heat, which means seas level will rise due to thermal expansion. If current trends in sea level continue, we are looking at a couple meters of sea level rise in the next hundred years or so, but air temperatures might be roughly the same.