I would always say that the faster/stronger one carries most of the responsibility for safety. A MUP is not your private racing track. On a MUP you must at any moment expect children (doing children things), dogs, people, tricycles etc. If you run into them, you are doing harm and you carry responsibility.

If you want to race get off the MUP and on the road.

You were going toooooo fast for the conditions you encountered. Not having a clear sight line would be your fault, nobody else to blame.

Yes, I would slow down on my motorcycle or car, if I couldn't see.......

I'm sorry this happened to you, and I wish people were more sensible on bike paths. But they aren't. Probably best to ease up around blind corners on the mup.

We have a path that has a very steep hill with a blind s-turn. I defy anyone to assert that they would ride their brakes down this hill to the extent required to avoid a full path blockage. I'm just glad the pedestrians usually don't make it that far on the trail. As you get closer to town, pedestrians can be a real problem.

And all the other cyclists were equally reckless. Look, if you were driving on a road where the speed limit was 65 mph and it was rainy, snowy, icy, whatever, you probably wouldn't drive 65 even though that was the posted speed limit. You wouldn't because it is commonsense to go slower in potentially dangerous situations. Family hour on a MUP (and really any time around this time of year) is dangerous if you ride too fast.

You are kidding yourself if you think other people using the MUP will respect the rules and this crash was the result of your naivete. It doesn't matter what is or isn't "expected" (which is your personal judgment, you have no idea what other people are thinking even if they are completely wrong). People have, still do and will continue to do foolish things on MUPs. Even though they shouldn't! Crazy!

Was this your first time riding on a MUP? Otherwise, you should have known better. If you want to pretend to be Lance ride on the road.

I think the best approach is to take as much of the responsibility for safety into your own hands as you can, especially if you're not the stronger/faster one. The adults clearly eff'd up in this situation. Maybe they weren't aware that fast moving cyclists use the MUP, I don't know, but they should be teaching their kids how to use said trails correctly. By not supervising their kids, they are putting the kids and other users of the MUP at risk.

The OP probably shouldn't have been going that fast since he couldn't see around the corner but to lay the blame primarily on him is a mistake since he was at least following the rules. They share blame and it's pointless to argue who is most at fault.

Jeremy, I realize you feel bad and angry at the same time. I'm sorry that happened to you. The very positive outcome though is that nobody was seriously hurt and everyone involved most likely learned something valuable in a way that will stick without having to pay too much of a price.

As far as blame goes, the other question to ask is what are peds doing on a portion of the MUP with a posted speed limit of 20? The MUPs around here have separate "lanes" for peds and cyclists, often physically separated. Even with that the speed limit is only 10 mph in some places. Perhaps the operators of the MUP share some blame too.

If these people weren't standing across the way he would certainly be able to avoid them. I still don't think it was his fault.

I have nothing more to say to you. I never claimed 100% innocence, but you seem to want to beat me up and say "naughty naughty" over and over again anyway. You add nothing useful to the discourse. Consider yourself ignored.

I agree, what sort of dimwit stops right after a blind corner? Bike/Ped accidents can be fatal, best not to tempt fate by ignoring your surroundings.

I get the point I'm a naughty boy for not breaking any rules and hitting someone anyway.



This is just taking a snipe at me personally. It is uncalled for and rude.

Unless I'm mistaken, a MUP is a multi-use path. That means pedestrians, roller bladers, dogs on long leashes, young children wandering about, and bicycles too. You have to be very careful biking on a MUP because at certain times, it's practically an obstacle course. I think you had a reminder of that today. No sense in beating yourself up more about it. Learn from this incident and move on. Next time you're on a MUP, remember that it's not a bike-only lane, and as a cyclist, you're going faster than almost everyone else using that path.

I'm sorry you were in a crash, and I'm sorry you hit a little girl. I don't want to beat you up, but here are a few tips in the interest of avoiding this kind of thing in the future.

(1) Slow down for blind curves. If you can't see otherwise, assume there's a bonehead in the middle of your path on the other side of the turn. It's less fun this way, but it helps you avoid guilt and anguish.

(2) Be extremely wary on MUPs either at busy times, or in busy places. Expect people to be walking their dogs in the wrong place, walking across the bike path without looking first, parked sideways adjusting their bike computer, or whatever.

(3) The speed limit isn't a challenge. It's the fastest speed allowed on the trail, and that means under ideal conditions.

(4) Consider taking the road instead. It might be safer to swim with the sharks ( cars and trucks ) than clueless people enjoying a brisk walk on the trail.

Maybe they don't know. This might have been their first time on the trail. They might have been tourists from Iowa. Anyway, whatever was going on in their minds, is irrelevant. What matters is that everyone on a road or a trail has an obligation to avoid collisions.

Really? Cyclists get annoyed at roadies for not taking the MUP? I'm starting to be one of those roadies ... I got jumped by a dog on a mountain trail, and realized that avoiding crowded trails will prevent most dog surprises.

So do you still believe that you are 100% not at fault? Do you still believe that there is nothing more that you can do to avoid this situation in the future?

The reality is that you cannot control what others do. So the best strategy is to modify your own behavior to ensure your and other's safety even if <gasp> that means you go above and beyond what is legally required of you.

Risk mitigation strategies for cycling
1. don't ride on MUPs
2. If you must ride on a MUP, ride slower than 20 mph.
3. Never ride faster than your ability to stop based on your sight line
3. Assume that kids, dogs, people, horses, goats, go-carts, tigers, and other misc. things appearing on a MUP will not follow the rules.

Sounds like both the bike rider and peds need to learn to use the MUP safely. That means sharing the path, not flying around blind corners, keeping kids out of harm's way, etc. I can't tell you how many times I've had near misses with bikes and peds who are not using the MUP appropriately.

I recently had a bike overtake me around a blind corner and directly into oncoming bike traffic on a narrow bridge. She was trying to keep up with her riding partner (probably her husband) and made a bad move that almost had serious consequences, but for my slowing down. I yelled at her, but she never even acknowledged her poor judgment.

First -- to the OP: I completely understand where you're coming from -- but I tend to agree with the folks here who say it was not your fault -- Family hour or not, blind curve or not, you have no reasonable expectation that a group will block the entire path (and yes, I've seen it on the MUP here, and yes, it irritates the beejezus out of me!) And they had EVERY obligation to move, or at least make some effort.

Second -- to TJSPIEL: When I first started commuting, I wondered at the guys (usually roadies) who bailed off the MUP onto the street at one point on my usual route... right up until the first time I had a car back out of a driveway into my path (this particular stretch is parallel to a residential street, with road on one side, and homes on the other -- i.e. glorified sidewalk -- and is a pretty decent downhill). I still ride on the MUP, but I do it with hands on the brakes, eyes on the driveways and at much lower speed.

No, this is merely your claim, it is not borne out in the text of this thread. This is the logical fallacy of attacking a straw man. Had I legitimately denied any culpability, you would have cause to continue beating me up over it. As it stands, I have admitted culpability.


This is a presumption and the logical fallacy of "post hoc, ergo propter hoc" or, in english, "after therefore because of". I was riding fast and hit someone, therefore I hit someone because I was riding fast.

I NEVER believed this. This is your strawman argument.

There may be, but you're certainly not suggesting what that might be, you're just wagging your e-finger at me and saying "naughty naughty".

And now you're being snide and attacking me. This is uncalled for and unproductive.


I'll point out again, since it seems to be ignored, at 20MPH I am not, was not, and will never be the fastest moving cyclist on the path. There are a LOT of fast riders on this trail. It is, therefore, reasonable to expect that the other users of the trail will be aware of this fact and act accordingly.

This should be 4 ;) This is my contention with you, and your fellow finger-waggers, you seem to stubbornly refuse to assign any fault to the entire group of people who stopped across the entire trail.

riding 20mph on an MUP is just plain ridiculous- even if it is the posted speed limit
if you're going to engage in muppet racing, prepare for the fact that you will hit someone/something
just because others are riding this fast or faster doesn't mean you
need to follow suit and join their lance wannabe muppet racing team

Yes, cyclists while driving get annoyed at roadies being on the streets instead of the MUP. My wife being one of them. ;)

This came up last year when we were out for a fun ride on a MUP. A driver coming the other direction yelled at a couple of roadies: "Get on on the trail, that's what it's for !!!!"

My wife looked at me and said, "I don't blame him. They're slowing down traffic. I hate that !". I pointed out that it's not safe to ride fast on the MUPs and she said yeah, but do they have to ride on this narrow street? I pointed out that the speed limit is 25 on that narrow street and the roadies were going nearly that fast. Also, if a driver is in a hurry they probably shouldn't be on a scenic road with a 25 mph speed limit.

Seattle Forest and SlowandSteady have both posted very good advice. If you put that into practice, you will likely avoid future repetitions of what you went through.

If it cheers you up, I almost hit someone two days ago. I'm flying across downhill through an intersection on my green light doing maybe 15-16 mph (my light turned green and I jumped on it) when this group of teenagers and a caucasian man decided to walk across the intersection on their red. I am wearing a helmet and an orange visibility vest with 4 inch yellow reflective stripes and its broad daylight. I yell (I have a bell, its not useful in situations like these), "Watch out! Look out!". The boys by this time are still on the crosswalk but no longer my side of the road, the man turns around and walks back nearer to intercept me as I am about to cross the crosswalk. He screams and yells "Wah hoo, wah hoo" and raises his arms at me. At this point I wasn't sure if he was going to engage\ charge\hit me as I was passed him. I braced myself for impact. He did not end up touching me (we were inches from each other). After I passed him, I looked back and yelled "A**hole" and gave him the finger salute. I believe he reciprocated.

What would I do differently? I think I would just weave around them and not say anything next time. If I hit someone jaywalking because I was not able to avoid them, I will simply let the cards fall where they may. I wanted to punch the guy very badly. I am ultimately glad I did not as I could be charged with assault.

Yo, OP, chill. What if there had been a crashed rider sprawled across the entire path and you slammed into him. Dude, you hit a kid going too fast around a blind corner. There's no real excuse for that, and blaming others won't change anything.

Wow...so not an attack. And I am quite aware of logical fallacies and did not attempt to use any of them on you. And you conveniently did not answer any of my questions.

Of course the 7 year old was at fault. Of course the entire group was at fault for taking the whole lane. That has been established. No one is denying that. No one is saying that you are 100% at fault. But you are responsible for your behavior and your behavior alone.

Since you cannot change what others on a MUP will do. And since it is almost a given that others on a MUP will at times not follow the rules, or swerve in front of you, or be walking slowly on a blind curve, what can YOU do to avoid a similar accident in the future?


There is a stretch of road that I frequently travel in my car. At dusk there is about a 5- 10% chance that I will encounter a deer crossing the road. It is pretty heavily wooded on each side and a deer darting out will happen with virtually no time to react. Therefore, despite the fact that it is legal to drive 50 mph on this road, I slow to 30-35 mph when traveling at dusk. I put my high beams on and scan the sides of the road carefully. It doesn't matter who is at fault. Blame isn't the issue. It is about altering your behavior to mitigate risks as you are aware of them so that you avoid accident and injury either to yourself or others.

I also carry pepper spray to deal with chasing dogs. Just because it is 100% the owner's fault if their dog chases me down and bites me, doesn't mean there aren't things I can do to help avoid this fate.

The issue is that you keep harping on who is to blame not on what you can do to minimize the risks.

He already feels bad. What are you trying to accomplish?

If there had been a crashed rider sprawled across the MUP and he had posted here about this incident, no doubt someone would be berating him for whatever he did to contribute to his crashing.

i don't think anyone is trying to intentionally make him feel bad- it just sounds like the OP sees nothing
crazy about riding 20mph on an MUP and it doesn't appear he's learned anything from his mishap

There usually are two people doing things that are wrong when a collision happens. So, the fault isn't entirely the OP's, but saying that the accident would be avoidable if the other guy was better at defensive walking/riding/driving is specious. A person should always ride/drive as if there is an unknown object directly in his path that he can't yet see; i.e. don't overrun your sight path, it's too fast. Whose fault would it be if there were a tree down across the MUP at the same location, the tree's?

Actually, this works.
"I was riding fast and hit someone," (who was where she was not supposed to be)
"therefore I hit someone because I was riding fast" (and didn't have adequate reaction time, braking power, and stopping distance)
Yep works for me in this instance.
Not all the blame is yours, and I do feel you have been raked over the coals enough...truly, I do.
I would be slowing down for blind curves from now on, though.
Never drive/ride faster than you can see.

I nearly plowed into a kid once a path, and since then I keep my speed around 12-14, slower on turns. You should be able to come to a stop within the distance that you can see down the path. 20mph belongs on the road.

Nice strawman. Again, I admitted my fault here. I didn't post to place blame, just to vent frustration. I didn't post to get beat up either. You're the, what, sixth or seventh? person to pile-on here. Kindly either say something productive, or just don't say anything.

Certainly not on a MUP filled with people going 20mph, no there isn't anything wrong here. You seem to be making unfounded assumptions as to the make-up of the traffic on this particular trail.

Well, like you said... the path has a marked centre divider on it.

If the group had been following the rules then no big deal, everybody walks/rides away fine. Unfortunately people on the MUP just don't follow the very simple rules. Should you slow to a crawl on blind corners? No... obviously that is not practical nor required by the MUP rules, but the reason you feel guilty is probably because you feel you could have been more cautious. Because people do stupid things like take up the whole pathway on a blind corner. Objectively it is not your fault, this sort of circumstance happens a lot, but next time i'd slow down for that same corner because getting into a crash is a gamble.

I hope you stood up for yourself, don't let the parents heft their guilt onto you - because they were the ones breaking the rules.

Well Said