How's this for a winter tire plan?
 

After ~1500 miles on the tires that came with my Soho, i think it's time to replace them.

The belt drive makes and igh make it a real pain to mess with the rear wheel, so i am thinking of putting a Schwalbe Marathon Plus on the back so i don't ever have to mess with it. (last time i had a flat theremin, I patched it and never changed the tube). I hear they are a bear to install bu t hopefully that's a one time event.

In the front I am thinking of an easier to mess with tire up front, maybe a Marathon Supreme since i use this bike whenever it rains - tend to ride the road bike when it is dry. Also, I have a Nokian studded tire for those icy days and would like to be able to swap it on the front rim without too much trouble. (too expensive to have a spare wheel with the roller brake hub).

Maybe its a bad idea to use only a studded tire in front but this is what i am thinking. Thoughts? Tnanks.

I would do everything I could to make sure that I never got a flat tire during the winter. I cringe at the thought of changing a stubborn tire in the middle of January out there. Weight, ride quality and efficiency would all come second.

do you only have 1 nokian? i put my winter tires on upon first chance of ice and ride them til spring.

Really, even on dry days?

I am new to studded tires, thought it was A Bad Thing to ride them on bare pavement...

I ride with 2 studded tires from November to March. It's dry almost every day during that time, but I have 4 miles of gravel which is icy all winter. It's OK to ride studded tires on bare pavement as long as you don't ride aggressively (hard cornering, hard braking, etc), that tears studs out.

If you had steel studs, it'd be a different matter; pavement would wear out steel studs in one or two hundred miles. But good studded tires use carbide studs, and the tire will wear out before the studs.

Personally I've never had a flat with the studded tires; I think it's because of a combination of less debris (gets embedded in ice and plowed off the road) and the fact that the studded tires tread is pretty thick, compared to the marathons or other thin tires I usually ride.

The cheesy ones with plain steel studs, yes, it's A Bad Thing. Good ones with carbide studs, no problem. Nokians use carbide studs. I'm entering my fifth winter on a set of W106s.

That said, they're tough to pedal around compared to road tires. I used to have second set of wheels for mine, but the expense of a dynamo hub put an end to that. Now I use a second bike for the clear and dry roads days. Fenders and Kool Stop salmons are its only concessions to winter.

I too have never flatted in winter. I also attribute this to the nice, thick tread of the Nokians, and the plows pushing debris to the side along with the snow.

Like I said in one earlier thread, you'll likely wear yourself out riding on bare pavement before the Nokian studs give up. That's the beauty of quality studded tyres, you can err on the safe side when it comes to riding conditions, and not have to worry about the tyres. It makes for a considerably tougher workout though.

If you have just one studded tyre, front is the place for it. Just like you're planning to do.

--J

Here's an excerpt from an article on Peter White's website (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/studdedtires.asp) concerning riding with one studded tire in front:

"One Tire in Front?

People often ask me if one studded tire in front is sufficient. Well, one studded tire in front will help keep you from crashing hard and breaking your collar bone or your pelvis. When the front tire slides, you go down quite fast and without warning. If the rear tire slides you can still go down, but not as fast, and the results are usually not so calamitous, since you usually have enough time to get a foot out of the pedal. But with just a front studded tire, you can still crash. You can still not be able to climb a hill with black ice. You can still not be able to get out of an icy rut. You can still spin on a downhill curve. You can still lose control in a busy intersection with lots of traffic. And you can still spin during hard braking. So, for the life of me, I can't see any reason to use a single studded tire in front, except to save a few dollars.

I do occasionally sell a single tire to someone who's been told by a friend that you only need a front studded tire. Similarly, there are many folks who think you can get away with snow tires just on the drive wheels of an automobile, which leads to cars spinning out of control because the front or rear has so much more traction than the other. Invariably I get a call a week later from the same customer ordering a second tire. He ends up with no cost savings, since he has to pay twice for shipping.

If you are buying tires for riding single track in winter, and you need to save money, there is a way to do it. Get a very aggressive tire for the front, an Extreme 294 or Ice Spiker, and then use an Extreme 120, Mount & Ground or Snow Stud in the rear. You won't get quite as good grip while climbing a steep trail as you would by having aggressive tires front and rear, but if your trails aren't too steep, you should be just fine. The more aggressive front tire will still be there to get you through icy ruts. For the commuter riding paved roads, there really is no alternative to having the W106 or A10 on both wheels. So unless you're riding to work on rail trails, I strongly recommend you use studded tires on both wheels, not just the front."

FWIW I use the Schwalbe Marathon Winters (size 700*35) on my bike. They are ideal for 95% of the winter conditions that we get around here. For the other 5% nothing short of a Surly Pugsley with Endomorph tires will suffice. On those days (since I don't have a Pugsley) I take the bus, get a ride, or stay home and call it a "snow day".

My winter bike last year:

http://imgur.com/vrIRql.jpg

In 8 years and about 6,000 winter miles, I have never had a flat with my Nokian W-106 tires. I'd consider that to be a pretty good performance and comparable to thaqt of many "flat resistant" tires. In fact, before I got my Marathon Plus tires, I toyed with the idea of riding year-round on the Nokians.

If you live in a flat area, running just a front studded tire might me a good efficiency tradeoff. Since I live on a hill, I pretty much have to use a studded tire in the rear.

Paul

Paul

I agree, I wouldn't roll with just one tire. OK, I HAVE occasionally, like if it's a late winter/early spring cold snap and I think there MIGHT be ice. But for most of the winter, I roll with two studded tires. As I said, I ride 4 miles of gravel, it's snow packed down into ice the whole winter (you can't salt gravel roads) and it's hilly, so it's studs on the back or walk most of those 4 miles.
I've never wiped out in 4 years of winter riding IF I had both studded tires on.

as noted, quality tires with carbide studs will last a long time. peter white cautions against riding aggressively on bare pavement due to the risk of damaging the tire, pulling studs out, etc. but in the past 2 years on my nokian w240s i haven't had a single problem and haven't babied them at all. stoplight sprints, incidental skids, hard braking, any type of riding you'd do in city traffic. i'm just saying

In my experience studded tires offer far worse traction on hard asphalt and concrete as there is less contact with rubber. So I have two sets of wheels for Winter, if it isn't freezing I would rather ride on regular tires. But belt drive indeed complicates matters here.

I doubt that the traction difference on pavement between my regular tires and my studded ones are much different than my regular tires and knobby ones. I don't take corners at 20 mph with them, but studded tires are sort of hard to go fast on anyway. Lots of studded tires don't even have any studs on the center rib.

Location matters too. There's not that many days here in the winter where doesn't drop below freezing at some point. We'll go weeks without it getting above freezing at all. There's always a risk of encountering some ice, even if it's above freezing. A layer of water on top of ice is worse than just ice.

So I pretty much run studs from December through most if not all of March. Sometimes they'll go on in November.

My Nokian M&G -W are many years old, put them on when needed , till I got another bike I ride above zero C
then I just park It.
the 106 stud is 2 rows, off center. ,so rubber is contacting the pavement in between the rows so ride fine on bared pavement .

just a bit slick when I'm walking the bike across the Bare linoleum floor indoors.

don't matter 'till the black ice shows up - then you'll need the studded tires front and rear. order them now before the rush!!!

If you live in an area where you get ice... do your self a favor and get some good CARBITE studded tires. I went cheap the 1st year. After 1 month of use the rear steel studs were useless and nearly shattered my elbow when I went down hard on a patch of ice. Since then I put up with the slight noise and heavier feel of the Nokia W109's. Since I've put on the good tires I've note gone down, even when I've ridden in some crazy icy days. The problem with black ice is that you won't know it till you cross it and your bike slides out from under you. You might think that you'll be able to catch yourself... chance are good that when you put your foot down, that it too catches the inc. Then you go down hard. My co-pay for a hospital visit is MUCH higher than the cost of a good set of tires.

Enjoy the ride,
André

Go for both, like others, i have not flatted with Winter tires, except the time i fitted them at work, and (presumably) pinched the tube. Tire went flat on the ride home. I found the Ice Spiker Pros I used last year, less of an effort than the snow studs from previous years, but not a straight comparison as the bike was better. Definitely vastly improved grip though.

well i had a tire emergency yesterday and had to replace the back one in a hurry, so now there's a vittoria on there. with the drum brakes, IGH, and esp the belt drive it took over an hour to replace with the help of a friend. I'm in no rush to swap a studded tire onto that anytime soon... i'll just put one on the front and take the train on really icy days.

thanks all for the good advice

Check out the winter forum... FWIW in the winter I run two studded tires. Definitely low flat potential + in icy conditions rear braking is a good idea. Often black ice/freezing rain reduces traction so that I find that a rear skid is a good way to blow off speed without risking a spill. A rear slick or knobby eliminates that possiblity...

This is an important point. If you are serious about commuting in winter, buy 2 tires and use them all winter. Last time I took my summer bike out in the winter, it was a gorgeous day in the 50s and I managed to locate the one section of ice on the road....

That's why you ride with studs. 95% of the trip will probably be bare pavement. It's the 5% you still need to navigate.

2 things about this come to mind. I am surprised it took so long, how long would it have taken you on a regular dérailleur set up? From what I and others have said, big knobby studded tires have less of a chance of flatting. Not flat proof, but more flat resistant, so why would you avoid fitting one? Yes, it means an hour now, at home, but reduces your potential for having to do it on the road, in the snow..

I have never had an IGH bike, but will be getting one this year, I understand that it will be a little more complex to get the rear wheel out, but I'm not going to avoid them because of that. I've found with good tires, flats are pretty uncommon.

Another thing to think about, if the puncture is obvious, and not catastrophic, i.e. small nail sticking out of the tire, peeling back the tire, pulling out the tube, and patching, is an option. No need to remove the wheel at all.