It would be interesting to know who you are referring to.

Now, tell me how you pull up on a platform pedal folks. If you can't pull up on the pedal, you can't truly spin.

You do it by screwing some straps onto it.

Now, is it still a "platform" pedal, or is it just cheating?

So you can pedal fast without clips. That doesn't mean you are efficient.

Clips or straps are the same thing to me. Your feet are attached to the pedal. I guess when someone says platform, I just assume it's a pedal with no attachments, right? Those you cannot truly spin on.

Can we modify the question to say, "Do you use foot retention for commuting? If so, do you use clipless, toeclips & straps, or something else?"

HAHAHAHAHAH more old wives tales. Once you exceed more then 75 rpms or so you can't pull up to be effective in power production, the most you can hope for is to dead weight the pedal. This wives tale has circulated for years and years. It's purely a psychosomatic effect.

https://www.spinning.com/images/Spin...am_Science.pdf

That's what I assume, too. I think it's been getting silly, what with people saying that they ride track with platforms -- but they're still using foot retention, sometimes even with cleats that help the shoe stay extra-secure to the pedal.

The REAL question, IMO, is whether a rider thinks it's worthwhile to have a pair of shoes specifically for the pedals they have on the bike.

As always, that ends up dependent on an individual's scenario. Personally, I can wear darn near whatever I want on the bike, because I change into a uniform at work, shoes and all. If I had to work in the same clothes I was wearing as I left the house, then I might do things differently.

75 rpm isn't that fast. Even I can pedal 75 rpm.

Right, my mistake. Clipless pedals are useless. No more efficiency is achieved with them. They are a waste of time. Whoever invented them didn't know what the hell they were doing...after all, it's wives tale that they make you a better rider. :rolleyes:

you can't comprehend what I wrote can you? Where did I say 75rpm was fast? Please reread my post for further edification.

Another poster who cannot comprehend what I wrote. Please re read my post and tell me where I said clipless pedals were useless.

What's your beef, anyway? Do you like clipless pedals/toeclips & straps/foot retention or not?

If you can't yank the pedals through a full circle at a mere 75 rpm (heck, that's even slower than my jogging pace), then you suck at spinning. Take it to the Road forum -- we all suck at spinning there. :D

So you're arguing the difference between straps and clipless pedals? Both systems with the feet attached right? I'm arguing attachment vs non attachment. btw, you're a rude, impatient old man aren't you?

you still didn't get it. I never said you can't yank a pedal at a mere 75rpm, or that 75rpm is fast, I said was once you exceed about 75rpm you cannot any longer pull up the pedal with any useable power and that the most you could hope for was to dead weight the pedal. Then I provided a web link for your further understanding as to what I was trying to convey. If you can't understand me, did you at least read the site from a more professional writer then I?

Well, at least you got something right!

It didn't say anything that I haven't seen in any other study. Plus, it goes into zero detail about how those forces were measured.

If I'm pulling up hard enough that I would feel a gap between my foot and the bottom of my shoe (especially with the cheaper shoes I used to have), then I'd call that a wee bit more force than just "dead weight"ing the pedal.

So, anyway... What are you *****ing about in this thread? I thought we were talking about clipless pedals & commuting -- so who pissed in your Wheaties today?

Forgive me if I gave offense. If you like clipless pedals, by all means use them. However, you can, in fact, spin with regular old platforms, even without toe clips. The advantage of clipless lies entirely in the fact that they keep your feet from coming off the pedal. The idea that one gets extra power from the upstroke has not been confirmed by any research ever done. In my own experience, clipless pedals are only an advantage in climbing, and even then the advantage isn't huge. On level ground, I can't tell the difference.

http://www.rivbike.com/article/clothing/the_shoes_ruse

Please keep in mind that disagreement isn't the same as a personal attack; I dislike clipless pedals, not the people who use them.

I would not quote Rivendell as a "source" since he is so hell-bent on getting everyone to ride old steel frames again.

What's wrong with steel frames?

There's nothing wrong with steel frames (I've got one, too), but his site is so full of elitist, snobbish crap that I wouldn't buy lube from the guy. He's selling an image of Old World craftsmanship, and if he even lets anything new-ish -- like, gosh, clipless pedals -- get sold under his roof, the whole image is gone.

I don't buy his little rant one bit.

I also think it's funny that on one hand, people say, "I was watching the TdF and saw racers pull out of their pedals," and on the other hand, "It's impossible to put any upward force on a pedal."

What a bunch of idiots. Like I said, go to the Road subforum. We're all idiots there.

all you guys commute on diamond frames, don't you?

...I'd hate to try to ride any distance let alone commute on my lowracer recumbent without my clipless. The connection to the pedals is an integral component of balancing and controlling the bike and coming off the pedals at my usual 25 - 30mph cruising speed would not end well at all.

:cheers: from one grouch to another!

Hey, we don't need your kind here! :D

Bicycles aren't power limited at the cranks, either. The first order limiting factors on power and energy are heart and lungs. You can apply power only on every third pedal stroke without affecting your average significantly.

Spinning and other "techniques" are fine if they're your style, but the efficiency claims are pure BS.

That's why a cyclist who wishes to become a better cyclist needs to be doing core muscle workouts. There are plenty of web sites to show how to do this if one is not sure how. Just google "core muscle workouts or exercises" or something related to that.

On the other hand a foot losing contact with a pedal is not very efficient.

Trashing your knees does wonders for your efficiency.

I get that a lot, especially when I slow down enough to ride with groups of roadies... ;)

... which, of course, is independent of clipless/toeclips/BMX pedal choices... :innocent: