I think the lack of toughness and resistance to everyday abuse rules carbon out as an everyday do-it-all machine. Save it for race-day or play bike use. Aluminium is probably the material of choice for everyday use these days in terms of cost/performance.

All of my bikes (steel and Alu) have at times been dropped to the floor, dropped against brick walls and metal posts, had BMX bikes thrown against them at the lockup.

For a carbon frame, that Versa 300 looks quite interesting. Does it have fittings for fenders at the frok crown and seatstay bridge?

You can use a CF bike for commute but I wouldn't. Keep in mind that the milage adds up fast on a bike use for commuting. I would rather save the CF road bike strickly for recreational road ride. I have thought of using my Scott CR1 for commuting, but I rather save those milage on that bike for the fun fast ride knowing that all the component of the bike is still tight and not worn out by the daily commute.

I think you will do better to get a CF bike on sale at clearance price and a used cyclocross bike that can serve as a commuter and cyclocross.

If I ever get the chance to pound on a CF frame to see how much abuse it'll take, you bet your booty that I'm gonna document every hammer blow, too.

If it's unlocked, say leaned against the window at a store you're inside of, I could steal your bike in about 20 seconds. All I'd have to do is seem to be walking by, grab the bike, get on, and pedal away. The thing is, bikes are fast. I can get away on your bike faster than you can run. ( I'm not going to, of course; just keep in mind that bikes are fast and convenient, even for a thief. )

That's why I hedged my bet a little bit and said "could," not "probably will." :) The truth is I really don't know how likely it is, and I'm sure it depends a great deal on how much impact, what type of carbon, etc. I do know, however, that I don't leave my carbon fiber bike leaning outdoors if it's even possible that the wind might blow it over, for exactly this reason. If nothing else, some anxiety seems to come with a carbon frame ... in my case it's worth it, but I refuse to lock my bike out upside because of the damage it might suffer.

For what it's worth, I use a carbon fiber and kevlar kayak paddle; when you get in and out of the boat, 85 % of your weight is borne by the paddle. If structural damage got to the shaft, it would probably fail while I was getting in or out, and I might well get hypothermia as a result. After years of using the paddle, and chipping it a few times in rock gardens and retaining walls, it's still working beautifully. On the other hand, I totaled an aluminum cyclocross frame in a pretty minor crash.

There are also sponsors who will subsidize the cost of those bikes for fast riders and slow riders who have the money to spend for a shiny toy. In either of these cases, it's OK if the frame has to be replaced after a year or two.

I've had a carbon-fiber mast for my sailboard since about 1989. I really don't go out unless it's good and windy so it's gotten it's fair share of abuse. It's been dropped, banged against rocks, stuck in a lake bottom and flipped over like a pole vault, etc. It's not going to smash easily. The more likely way to damage it would be to whack good and hard against something with a sharp/jagged edge.

For all the fear of clamping things on CF, it can be done if done right. My boom clamps on to the mast and it's under all kinds of force. More than any p-clip attached to a rack would subject a bike frame to. The way it's done with my mast though is to use a thin aluminum sleeve between the mast and the clamp. This prevents any part of the clamp from digging into the CF.

I know quite a few folks with CF bikes who are neither rich, nor have sponsors, - most of the people on my group rides for example. Believe me, aside from a neighbor I know who's a doctor, they aren't going to be replacing their bikes every couple of years. I doubt the doctor will either, even if he can afford it.

Lots of people race without sponsorships. Lots of people just like a fast bike and don't race at all.

Look - truth is one of these threads pops up every couple of weeks. And many of the forum regulars are probably like me - they look at the thread title and go "Ehhhhh...I don't think I want to get involved in that debate again...".

So I decided to comment, but I'm not going to go into all of my back story yet again, but just let me say -

1. Carbon fiber has been around a while now, and the massive fears that it would be to fragile haven't panned out. I've read several stories from fairly regular forum members who were involved in road racing crashes where carbon fiber bikes held up better than the aluminum ones. As well as several stories of steel or aluminum components that have failed suddenly and catastrophically - I guy at work had his new steel fork break suddenly and broke his collarbone. Carbon fiber stuff sometimes fails, but not any more than any other material.

2. A cyclocross bike is going to be overbuilt compared to a road bike because it's intended to be yanked over logs and such, so I see absolutely no need to worry about it's durability. A carbon fiber cyclocross bike should be more durable than an aluminum road bike.

The only consistent concern with a carbon fiber bike is that it's more expensive and may make a more likely theft target and be more expensive to replace if it's stolen. Other than that, it's a great material for a commuter bike, just like steel and aluminum are. There are even racks available for models that don't have rack mounts (they mount on points on the bike designed to take pressure - the wheel skewer on the bottom which supports your body weight, and either the brake bridge at the top that handles you hitting the brakes hard at 30mph, or the seatpost collar).

Frankly, the only part of the bike where breaking would be disastrous for you is the front fork, and nowadays steel and aluminum bikes come with a carbon fiber front fork anyways. If any of the rest of the frame of the bike breaks while riding, since there's always 2 tubes attaching you to the rest of the frame so there is still one left that hasn't broken. I had it happen to me with a steel frame bike, and I just coasted to a stop (actually I coasted part of the way home with the frame broken because I got bored walking it and it worked ok). It's losing the front wheel or the front fork that's a real disaster - you just go down and you don't even have time to react. Had that happen to me to - still has a slight scar on my elbow.

Well, I agree with that statement, and that many can be over-skeptical of carbon. As far as the rest of the Gospel according to Paul, it is presented with vigor and founded on some realities, but glosses over others and has some "then a miracle happens" logic (e.g. para 1). In the end, like most gospels, it requires a leap of faith to be taken as divine revelation of the last word.

The Orbea Diem is a carbon commuter bike that can take a rack. Pretty pricey.

http://mos.bikeradar.com/images/news...lat-798-99.jpg

"The Orbea Diem is a carbon commuter bike that can take a rack. Pretty pricey."

This is the first CF bike I've ever been attracted to!

For what it's worth, I agree with the posters above who suggest two bikes. It's good to have a bike that you can beat up and tinker with, while leaving your racing machine unmolested.

This is apples and oranges to what I was saying. I don't dispute that a carbon bike makes sense for road riding for anyone who can afford it. What I'm saying is that I am not convinced that carbon bikes are a good idea for mountain biking or cyclocross for people who don't have the means to replace the frame every couple of years.

Why would they want to replace their frame every two years?

You know they make (lots of) carbon fiber mountain bikes, right? And cross bikes, too? Probably they're made with the expectation that they'll take some abuse...

http://www.besportier.com/archives/2...ntain-bike.jpg

http://bikemag.com/news/freshproduce...otection-d.jpg

You're making is sound like you'll destroy a CF frame just by giving it a dirty look!

They sell the Diem Drop in Europe; pretty much the same, but with drop bars:
http://www.thebikelist.co.uk/orbea/diem-drop-disc-2009

I use old steel bikes for commuting, also a newer aluminum bike. commuting can be really hard on a bike. there are lots of surprises along the way, especially in the dark. when the temps drop to the teens that might make the carbon bike more brittle?

lol, if anything, I think a steel or aluminum bike would have greater problems with the dropping temps. (Neither actually do, but relative to each other...)

Nope. Well, unless you're talking into the teens Kelvin. ;)

Just so you know, the Diem Drop is priced at 1912 euros (~ $2700) and it comes with all Tiagra components. Weighs around 22 lbs. You could get a steel frame bike with better components weighing the same for around half that.

Sure, but steel isn't in the thread title...