KMC S10 stainless steel chain: currently $17.88 with shipping
http://www.amazon.com/KMC-S10-Bicycl.../dp/B000C1YOQ8

Looks nice. I think I'll have to get one of these next time I need a new chain.

Nice to hear from cyclists with personal experience with belt drives. The idea is intriguing. However, do you have to use a rear hub with internal gearing, or can you still use a derailleur system? I don't think I'm ready to give up my 18-speeds, and weight is a big factor for me because my commute route is very hilly.

Holy $(@*. Want! Anybody have any experience with these things? I'd get the roadbike version for commuting.

Edit: Oh. I see there's no shaft drive road bike. :(

You can not use a derailleur with any set up I've seen. It is IGH or single speed with belts.

I was disapointed that they did not have a road bike version too. Hopefully someone comes out with one in the near future. There are other drive shaft bike makers. I have not found one that makes a road bike yet though.

I am not sold on the belt drive. I just don't get, what is the advantage?
That chains wear out every couple thousands of miles. .... well big deal. get a new one, it's not like the cost anything.
That you need a chain guard if you want to keep your pants clean? I don't see that as such a hassle, what's wrong with a chain guard? You don't necessary need fully-enclosed.

And whats the disadvantage of belt drives?
You need get a new bike (ouch!)
And don't think about getting one with derailleur gearing (big ouch!!)

My opinion is this will follow a similar pattern as the move from chain drive on some motorcycles.

Racing motorcycles still use chains.
Liesure motorcycles commonly use chains, belts, and shaft drive.
Bicycles have much stricter weight considerations, so shaft drive is out.

In the city bike realm; I predict we will see a lot more belt driven bicycles on the road through attrition as people buy new bikes. (of course, cost of the belt drive system must be comparable.)
If I was buying a bike from the LBS for the city, I would be sold on the "set it and forget it" idea of maintenance on the drive train.

I like to work on my bikes, but I believe most do not. I'll probably run chains forever, my kids will probably have 30 speed belt-driven drivetrains available and they'll see a chain as old school.

Edit:
I hit the link and read the article after I wrote this. Now I'm a parrot!

The CenterTrack is the whole system; belt, front sprocket, and rear cog: http://www.bikerumor.com/2010/09/15/...rtrack-system/. My LBS owner is letting me use the cog off of his Ceres while Norco sorts out the warranty issue; apparantly there is a delay in retrofitting the old aluminum for the new steel cogs. It would be nice if I could upgrade to the CenterTrack system. If Gates offered me a nice credit I would certainly consider it.

Being a relatively new technology (for bicycles, anyway) there are of course going to be growing pains. For example, the tangs being sheared off of my aluminum cog and the alignment issues inherent with belt drive. Gates has addressed these issues with its new steel cogs and the aforementioned CenterTrack design. Belts won't work with a derailleur, therefore belt-driven bikes will not have the gear range of many chain-driven counterparts. And yes, they are more expensive than chains.

Belt technology, in and of itself, is hardly new. As the system becomes refined it will become less prone to failure. As we can all imagine, the modern derailleur suffered many growing pains before reaching the level of sophistication that it enjoys today. That being said, I have personally suffered more derailleur/chain/cassette issues over the years than I care to mention. As for gearing, the eight speeds provided by my Alfine hub are more than adequate for my commute. If I needed more gearing there's always the venerable Rohloff hub, and the Alfine 11 is coming soon. Cost indeed becomes an issue with IGH hubs, but those of us who enjoy their advantages are willing to suffer the added cost. SS aficionados, OTOH, can transition to belt drive easily.

While a chainguard may indeed protect a pant leg from chain tattoos, a chain-driven drivetrain still requires lube, and any maintenance runs the risk of transferring the lube to hands and/or clothing. Arguably the biggest advantage of the belt drive system is the reduction in overall maintenance and mess. Another advantage that I enjoy is the stealthy, almost silent operation of the bike and the indescribable slickness of the belt drive system.

Of course there will always be naysayers; those who will refute the idea of belt drive just because it seems different and therefore scary. As I've said before, the derailleur likely suffered the same sort of bad press when it was introduced in the early 20th century, and yet it has enjoyed some moderate success. And as for the unwillingness to embrace new technology, well you just can't graft a new idea onto a closed mind. For any doubters all I can say is, "Ride one... and you will understand".

Actually, the real latest Guiness recognized record was set using a chain drivetrain.

Impressive feats, irrespective of the drivetrain. It was noteworthy, however, that the belt-driven bike went through one belt while the chain-driven bike went through 11 chains. A new belt costs ~$55... I doubt the second rider was using $5 chains so apparently there is a demonstrated long-term savings to belt drive. I also found it interesting that both record holders used IGHs; Rohloff with the belt, and Alfine with the chain. Proof-positive of adequate gear range.

I'm probably going to sound like a broken record but if it weren't for winter riding I probably wouldn't give it much thought. But with all the snow, ice, slush water, salt, sand and crud on the roads, an IGH has the advantage over a derailleur system anyway. The fewer moving parts exposed to the elements the better, and a chain has a lot of moving parts.

The added chain maintenance is one aspect of winter riding that I'd love to be able to do without.

Shaft drive is not a new technology and has not met with overwhelming success as it does add a lot of weight to a bicycle and there have been some design issues with Dynamic's shaft driven bicycles.

Have driven a Dynamic with an 8 speed IGH and found it to be quite pleasant but by no means quick... the shaft drive is not as efficient or as light as a chain but does work well in many applications.

Belt drives on the other hand are going to get more and more popular and they go along nicely with the resurgence in popularity of internal gear hubs which I do expect to replace derailleur drives on all but high performance / racing bicycles..

True in most cases. But if you happen to have a steel frame with horizontal dropouts, and you're already running IGH or single speed, then you could get a framebuilder to install a seatstay splitter from S&S or Paragon. I'm toying with this idea for my Rohloff-equipped Salsa Casseroll.

One thing that's holding me back is that my Rohloff seeps oil. Not a lot, but enough that some would get on the belt, which might be bad for the belt, and negates the pants-leg-preserving advantage of belt drive. On the off chance that there are any Rohloff belt drive users reading this, can you comment on this issue?

http://www.sandsmachine.com/p_geekh_002.jpg

http://images.goemerchant.net/StoreD...0_MS1035_1.JPG

those Globe bikes are a good value.

I'm going through a chain a year riding through rain. I just switched drive trains between two bikes and the mismatch is horrible, just checked with a ruler and the chain needs replacing. I rode three times as much out west 30yrs ago but not anywhere as much through rain and that's wearing them out.

Not to mention the weight saving - a spare belt would be pretty light.

I'm amazed he used an Alfine. I've only had one of the old Nexus hubs and that had a lot of take up slack. The Alfine must be better.

I agree with what you say about the IGH. The overall reduced maintenance for chain and shifting with an IGH is very obvious. If you throw in even a very basic, small chainguard the required maintenance drops even further. But is a belt really making that much different from this setup?

I've been loving my belt driven Norco Vesta (I've converted it from SS to Alfine 8 speed). The drivetrain is very clean compared to a chain setup from what I've seen thus far - the bike will see its first true winter conditions soon enough, which will be another true test of this.
The belt is very responsive - there is no input lag or stretch, and the feel at the pedals is quite nice.

As mentioned in other posts, belt alignment is crucial. If the rear wheel is not perfetly even in the dropouts (i.e. the rear cog has any angle off of perfectly square with the belt axis) then the belt can wander. It does appear that Gates has acknowledged and addressed this with the certer-trac system. I know as an early adopter of a new application that there will be tweaks, but I can report that I am an extremely satisfied belt user thus far.

As far as the IGH thing goes, try it before you write it off. The current Alfine 8 offers a very wide range that is comparable to most compact road (39/53) drivetrains with the exception of the top couple of gears.
Most 2 and 3 chainring drivetrains have many useless or redundant gear combinations. It is not uncommon for a 27 speed drivetrain to have 13-14 unique useful gears once the duplicates and "chainline limited" combinations are eliminated.

Hills? Bring 'em. My current setup offers a 28 inch first gear, and I've easily tackled 20% grades on and off road. Top end? I spin out at about 30-31 MPH, which is plenty fast enough for me (I'm not racing). If on a steep hill, I tend to coast anyway (again, my racing days are over).

The IGH tradeoff? Sure. The larger steps between gears means that fine tuning your pace in headwinds or on long grades is not as convenient as on a road bike with a close ratio cassette. The difference is less noticeable when compared to wider ratio cassettes.

The highly anticipated Alfine 11 will be a boon, as it offers better steps between gears with a larger jump to first gear for a great bailout.

Nice to hear you chime in, canyoneagle. We seem to be part of a small (but vocal), growing community of belt drive aficionados. It's also nice to see a range of belt-driven bikes, from calamarichris' classy, yet utilitarian Live 3 to JohnnyHK's super-sexy Lynskey build and everything in between. I have a feeling that before too long belt-driven bikes will be commonplace and that maybe there will soon be a need for a belt drive BF sub-forum.

A chainguard might help some. I'm sure it's really beneficial to protect the chain from rain if the bike stays outdoors. But unless you're talking about a full chain case my chain is still going to get doused with a salt, water, and sand mixture on many of my winter commutes. I can clean my chain one night and the morning after my next commute it'll be rusty. It all depends on the weather of course. If stays cold, it's not as much of a problem but when starts getting into the 20's the roads will be slushy and wet.

I've used some KMC "Rust Buster" chains that help keep the rust at bay, but they still need frequent cleaning and lubrication to manage the grit. The pins still rust. Even with the rust busters I won't get much more than a season out of them. They won't look as bad but they'll be just as worn.

I think a belt is much better suited to the conditions I ride in during the winter.

I keep seeing sweet belt rigs (more my style than, for example, the Soho), and after reading things about shafts, I'm back on board with belts. :) I'm just not sure what I want. Internal gears? Fixed? I think I'd be fine with a singlespeed for commuting, as it's mostly flat. After spending 4 years riding a 35 pound dualie MTB, I may be ready to swing entirely the other way and go for a lightweight speedbike. So many choices. :eek:

My friend with a fixie is trying to talk me into building one. I've ridden his and it's evilly fast, but I ride all-weather and hate the chain bother.

I love the idea for new bikes... in a few years we'll have perfectly ridable garage queens with nice belt drives ready to go :)

I'd go belt once there are a few more options for cog and 'beltring' combinations just to fine-tune the gearing, I'm a geek like that.

Well, until you get your belt drive bike, have you ever thought about trying a Hebie Chainglider? page, installed

Most of the models that feature the Gates Carbon Drive use either roller or disc brakes. For those who want the no fuss of the belt drive, but don't want or need the weight of those braking systems- take a look at what Civia has to offer. I was researching (read: drooling) my next bike and decided to look at their site (even though there is no dealer in my state :(). They have a couple of models that have the belt drive and use canti's.

EDIT: I was mistaken. The Kingfield is the only belt/canti model.

I've put about 1500 miles on my Trek Soho, which uses an IGh with the belt drive.

I am generally enthusiastic about it in bad weather because I hate cleaning a chain. Sure, I know it "only takes 5-10m", but every day or every other day that adds up. and then if you forget...

But after riding it for that many miles, I've developed a handful of complaints:

1. The Nexus just doesn't have the gear range I'd like, especially on the low end. I'm big and there are hills on my commute, so it's a problem. I'm sure a Sturmey-Archer would be better.
2. Because there are only 8 gears, it's harder to find just the right gear. I usually want to be somewhere between 5 (direct drive) and 6.
3. Changing a flat on the rear is a real nightmare. Maybe with practice I'd get better at it, but it took much much longer than a typical setup. Part of the problem might be the drum brakes.

That said, another positive is that the bike is mostly silent. I can only get it to make noise if I pedal backward. If I didn't have any hills on my commute, it would be near-perfect. Or I guess I could lose 50# and the nit would be the perfect bike :-)