Bike Forums - caused accident

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both cars were not driving safely for conditions. period.

you are never supposed to enter the 'box' unless you have clear path no matter who has right of way. being dead right does not get you off the hook?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sggoodri (Post 11720289)

The same situation could happen with a pedestrian walking in a crosswalk. A left-turning driver facing a circular green is watching oncoming traffic, sees a gap in the oncoming lane, accelerates, and then hits the brakes when he notices a pedestrian in the crosswalk. Or hits the pedestrian. The driver's error in this case is not confirming that both the travel lane and the crosswalk to be crossed will be clear of traffic..

True & correct, but typically pedestrians travel much slower than cyclists and one can see a 'same direction' pedestrian crossing well before they get to the side of the street that will be turned onto, or more likely the pedestrian will not be on the far side of the street until left turning traffic has had time to clear. The path design including light timing/signal phasing is also 'at fault' - if cyclists are going to be approaching from behind a turning driver on their left side the signal timing to allow the left turn to clear intersection needs to accommodate that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPprivate (Post 11719973)

Well, I'm wondering if the northbound driver actually saw the left turner or if his view was somehow blocked by the other northbound driver next to him (and a little in front of him). It went too fast to say for certain.

Oh, really? Yeah, the one involved in the accident was basically screwed, with no escape route. I'd put the blame on the left crosser for not clearing the intersection in a timely manner, honestly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by himespau (Post 11719658)

Also the person who hit the left turner has some culpability because you shouldn't be driving faster than you can control your vehicle (basic speed law in every state) and if the turner stopped in the lane it was her responsibility not to hit him if he had right of way.

And it sounds like that 2nd car must have been anticipating the light changing and carried some speed through, or otherwise moved darn briskly. Didn't the light just turn for them before they barrelled through into a blocked box?

Just another guess from inferred facts, but it doesn't appear like that's penalized here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mulveyr (Post 11719312)

Uh, not necessarily. If the left-turner was already in the intersection ( delayed because of cars ahead of him, for example ) as the light turned red, most state would allow him to complete the turn on red without penalty.

The OP doesn't say, but if that's the case, it could very well be a situation of shared responsibility. The OP should have noted that the car was in that position, and not proceeded across the intersection until the car was all the way through. Having the green light does not absolve you of the responsibility of ensuring you're not contributing to a dangerous situation.

Edit: Found this on the web:

"the Oct-98 printed edition of the Illinois Driver's Manual "Rules Of The Road" says: "If you enter an intersection when the light is green, you may finish your turn even though the light turns red" (Chapter Three: Traffic Laws - Right-Of-Way)."

That being the case, the OP may very well be legally responsible for contributing to the accident if the car was already in the intersection.

Stoplights are designed to have a delay between the turning red of one light and the turning green of the other specifically for this issue. I find it more likely that the left-turner attempted to start the turn on a red.