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Originally Posted by interested
(Post 11765212)
No, the OP's story just illustrate how people actually are instead of being some demi-god like entities that never forgets anything and always are prepared for any contingency.
Call people stupid and lazy but the fact is that people forget. They forget their lights, they forget to change batteries, they forget to buy/recharge their batteries, they forget to turn of the lights so the batteries are unexpectedly flat the next day, they forget that cold weather can affect battery run times, they forget how much battery power is left, they accidentally activate the lights when putting in their bag so they are flat when returning home, they fumble and drop their lights so they break, they loose lights when the light holder are badly designed (*cough*Cateye*cough*), they forget to take their lights off so they are stolen etc. etc. Dynamo generated lighting systems on bikes are a proven method to reduce the amount of "ninja" cyclists, because people are people and stuff happens. -- Regards He *chose* not to put any lights on his bike and he *chose* not to bring any along. He also *chose* to grab a bite to eat knowing it was getting late and getting dark. For that matter he chose not to put a dynohub on that bike partly due to the reasons many of us don't, - and that's because of the cost. To me the moral of this story is: "There are pros and cons to various lighting systems, but any light is better than none at all". |
Originally Posted by RichardGlover
(Post 11764952)
I'd feel more comfortable about a company that could afford to keep it's website running.
The manufacturer is: http://www.magtenlight.com/class.asp My site is : http://handlebarhelper.com/ They are both up. My site will have comprehensive installation instructions in 2 weeks. |
Originally Posted by tjspiel
(Post 11765500)
But that's not what happened. He didn't forget his lights. No Batteries went dead.
He *chose* not to put any lights on his bike and he *chose* not to bring any along. He also *chose* to grab a bite to eat knowing it was getting late and getting dark.. The alternative to making predictions and therefore sometimes get it wrong, is to slavishly carry everything, every time, every where, and never forget. Having dynamo lights means that you never forget the lights or recharging them and that you never need to make predictions about needing lights or not, so you never guess wrong. There may be many different reasons why the ninja cyclist doesn't have lights on his bike; he forgot, they broke down, he made a wrong prediction, force majeure etc. But chances are, that if he had dynamo lights on the bike, then he wouldn't be a ninja cyclist at all. -- Regards |
If you install a Dynamo hub and take off your light from time to time, you could end up in the same situation. The key here is, whatever light you use, leave it mounted and dont take it off. (and if it uses batteries, keep spares in your seat bag with the spare tube)
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Originally Posted by interested
(Post 11766733)
Exactly, he did what people do all the time; making predictions about the future. In this case he was wrong, but the reason people are making predictions are because they often get them right; they often get home before dark, or it doesn't rain that day etc.
The alternative to making predictions and therefore sometimes get it wrong, is to slavishly carry everything, every time, every where, and never forget. Having dynamo lights means that you never forget the lights or recharging them and that you never need to make predictions about needing lights or not, so you never guess wrong. There may be many different reasons why the ninja cyclist doesn't have lights on his bike; he forgot, they broke down, he made a wrong prediction, force majeure etc. But chances are, that if he had dynamo lights on the bike, then he wouldn't be a ninja cyclist at all. -- Regards Believe me I get that you don't need batteries for dynamo lights. But batteries weren't an issue in his story. If you keep lights on your bike, even the battery operated kind, you don't have to worry about forgetting them either. I'm not some super human with a foolproof memory, yet I can't think of a time that I went to turn on my lights and they wouldn't because the batteries were dead. I have had lights come apart, problems with fraying wires and bad switches. Yesterday I sent a PB Super Flash in for replacement because it just stopped working. A dynohub doesn't necessarily solve these issues and guarantee that the lights are always going to function. A backup is still a good idea. I'll say it for probably the 3rd time in this thread: I'm not advocating against dynohubs. If I could get two cheaply enough I'd probably have them on my winter bike. But there's nothing in the OPs story that couldn't have been solved by having a set of battery powered lights on his bike. |
Originally Posted by interested
(Post 11766733)
...slavishly carry everything, every time, every where, and never forget. Having dynamo lights means that you never forget the lights...
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Originally Posted by tjspiel
(Post 11766896)
Chances are if he has ANY lights on his bike at all he won't be a Ninja cyclist..
My point is, that forgetting, making wrong predictions, having small accidents is what people do and experience all the time, which is why ninja cyclists are seen all the time. So if you see a ninja cyclist, chances are that it isn't because he can afford lights or doesn't own any, that he rides without lights in the dark.
Originally Posted by tjspiel
(Post 11766896)
[snip] But batteries weren't an issue in his story.
-- Regards |
Originally Posted by interested
(Post 11767123)
I don't know about where you ride, but ninja riders actually do exist and not in any small number either. You seem to say, that if people always remembered their lights and never forgot to recharge them etc, then there wouldn't be any ninja cyclists.
Originally Posted by interested
(Post 11767123)
My point is, that forgetting, making wrong predictions, having small accidents is what people do and experience all the time, which is why ninja cyclists are seen all the time. So if you see a ninja cyclist, chances are that it isn't because he can afford lights or doesn't own any, that he rides without lights in the dark.
Originally Posted by interested
(Post 11767123)
Exactly, human behavior is. Humans make a lot of right decisions a lot of the time, but they also make mistakes. Having dynamo lights simply takes out the "human error" element when it comes to lights, which is why dynamo light equipped bikes almost never are ninja bikes.
-- Regards The bike share program that I'm a member of uses bikes with dynohubs and it makes perfect sense for that type of bike. I wish the lights stayed on for at least a little bit while you're stopped but I understand that's not a problem with all models. Still, I think a light that stays bright while you're not moving can be really valuable too. |
Originally Posted by interested
(Post 11767123)
I don't know about where you ride, but ninja riders actually do exist and not in any small number either. You seem to say, that if people always remembered their lights and never forgot to recharge them etc, then there wouldn't be any ninja cyclists.
My point is, that forgetting, making wrong predictions, having small accidents is what people do and experience all the time, which is why ninja cyclists are seen all the time. So if you see a ninja cyclist, chances are that it isn't because he can afford lights or doesn't own any, that he rides without lights in the dark. Exactly, human behavior is. Humans make a lot of right decisions a lot of the time, but they also make mistakes. Having dynamo lights simply takes out the "human error" element when it comes to lights, which is why dynamo light equipped bikes almost never are ninja bikes. -- Regards |
Originally Posted by CACycling
(Post 11767071)
What's the difference between me "slavishly" carrying my lights and batteries and you "slavishly" carrying your dynamo hub and lights? Different means to the same end.
Originally Posted by CACycling
(Post 11767071)
I've yet to "forget" the lights that are clamped to my bike nor have I forgotten to charge the batteries in the years I've been commuting.
-- Regards |
Originally Posted by MMACH 5
(Post 11767246)
Hit was getting dark, he DECIDED to stop for dinner.
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Originally Posted by MMACH 5
(Post 11767246)
He didn't "predict" anything. He DECIDED he didn't need lights.
"It was still light out when I got home from work, and I didn't expect my trip to take long, so I decided to leave my bag of lights and such at home." The word "expect" imply a prediction about the future. The above quote illustrate exactly how we humans work; we make predictions about the future and act accordingly. Eg. if you "predict" that it isn't going to rain, you can harvest the reward of not having to take a raincoat/ umbrella with you. In this case the OP predicted that he wouldn't need his lights and therefore decided not to take any with him. Whether this was a good decision or not is IMHO totally irrelevant. The point is that chain of events that lead him to become a ninja cyclist is hum-drum typical human behavior and that you will find similar stories about many a ninja cyclist skulking their way home. The OP's reasoning, that if he had a permanently installed, always working integrated lighting system like a dynamo hub then he wouldn't have become a ninja cyclist, is very sound reasoning.
Originally Posted by MMACH 5
(Post 11767246)
[snip] Dynohub lights are removable. He would have been in the same boat whether he had a dynohub or not.
-- Regards |
Originally Posted by interested
(Post 11767468)
The OP's reasoning, that if he had a permanently installed, always working integrated lighting system like a dynamo hub then he wouldn't have become a ninja cyclist, is very sound reasoning.
Are you seriously telling us that you believe that every $50 throw away bike from Walmart or wherever should have $300 worth of light systems factory installed? I, for one, would not chose a meal out over my personal safety for any reason... That must be some DAMN fine Mexican food! |
Originally Posted by interested
(Post 11767468)
You are simply wrong here. His decision was based on the prediction about the future. Let us see an actually quote from the OP:
"It was still light out when I got home from work, and I didn't expect my trip to take long, so I decided to leave my bag of lights and such at home." The word "expect" imply a prediction about the future. The above quote illustrate exactly how we humans work; we make predictions about the future and act accordingly. Eg. if you "predict" that it isn't going to rain, you can harvest the reward of not having to take a raincoat/ umbrella with you. In this case the OP predicted that he wouldn't need his lights and therefore decided not to take any with him. Whether this was a good decision or not is IMHO totally irrelevant. The point is that chain of events that lead him to become a ninja cyclist is hum-drum typical human behavior and that you will find similar stories about many a ninja cyclist skulking their way home. The OP's reasoning, that if he had a permanently installed, always working integrated lighting system like a dynamo hub then he wouldn't have become a ninja cyclist, is very sound reasoning. Removable Dynohub lights are extremely rare. In fact I have never seen or heard about such lights. It was rumored that B&M was developing a quick release for their lights, but so far it has been vaporware. So for all practical purposes dynamo lights are permanently installed, so you never have to think about removing them or not. You just jump on the bike and ride. -- Regards That wasn't a bad prediction. He knew it was going to get dark. I'd also say that his solution to this problem is like saying you need a Showers Pass jacket if you're going to ride in the rain when there's any number of available rain jackets to choose from. By most accounts the Showers Pass jacket is nice but it may or may not be a good choice for everyone |
Originally Posted by bmclaughlin807
(Post 11767515)
over my personal safety for any reason...
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Originally Posted by interested
(Post 11767290)
The main difference is that I don't carry any lights in my pockets /bag when off the bike, nor do I have to take the lights off or put them on on a daily basis.
I use unmountable lights, and take them off if I leave my bike outside. But I know many people with battery powered lights (some as bright as any powered by a dyno), who leave them attached to the bike at all times, as they're not easily removed. It's also entirely possible to rig dyno lights to be easily removed (the lights, not the hub obviously), and some people prefer that. There are arguments in favour of dynos. The OP's story is not one of them. I'm not sure why you're having such a hard time with that. If you're prone to not bringing lights, then a permanent attachment setup is valuable. How they're powered is a separate decision. |
There are also places where a dyno system is going to get stolen/vandalized if left out so a removable light that is removed when bike is parked will more likely to be working when needed.
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Originally Posted by interested
(Post 11767468)
Removable Dynohub lights are extremely rare. In fact I have never seen or heard about such lights. It was rumored that B&M was developing a quick release for their lights, but so far it has been vaporware. So for all practical purposes dynamo lights are permanently installed, so you never have to think about removing them or not. You just jump on the bike and ride.
-- Regards |
Originally Posted by interested
(Post 11767468)
You are simply wrong here. His decision was based on the prediction about the future. Let us see an actually quote from the OP:
"It was still light out when I got home from work, and I didn't expect my trip to take long, so I decided to leave my bag of lights and such at home." The word "expect" imply a prediction about the future. The above quote illustrate exactly how we humans work; we make predictions about the future and act accordingly. Eg. if you "predict" that it isn't going to rain, you can harvest the reward of not having to take a raincoat/ umbrella with you. In this case the OP predicted that he wouldn't need his lights and therefore decided not to take any with him. Whether this was a good decision or not is IMHO totally irrelevant. The point is that chain of events that lead him to become a ninja cyclist is hum-drum typical human behavior and that you will find similar stories about many a ninja cyclist skulking their way home. The OP's reasoning, that if he had a permanently installed, always working integrated lighting system like a dynamo hub then he wouldn't have become a ninja cyclist, is very sound reasoning. ... I use battery powered lights and they are on whether it is night or day. No predicting needed. I DECIDE to be more safe than less. If others choose not to, that's fine. My point is that this was not an equipment problem. Regardless of his reasons and regardless of the lighting system, he DECIDED not to use lights on his bike. |
I am setting up a dyno light set. I am planning to use it as a back up for my Magicshine--and also to remove the 3hr riding limit (Magicshine runtime).
I like the concept of the MagtenLight set up. I can't use a hub dynamo, so that looks like a winning concept for me. I am going to use a bottle dynamo, at least until I decide to pull the trigger on the MagtenLight rig. I have been spoiled by my Magicshine. I am going to have to replace the Magicshine pretty soonish anyway. It is starting to act a little wonky. I will buy another one, unless/until I can find something better. |
Originally Posted by xtrajack
(Post 11767833)
I can't use a hub dynamo, .
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Holy cow. This thread took off.
I really like my DIY halogen light. It's very bright. But I really appreciate having a dynohub light for rides longer than 5 miles... since the battery is toast after 45 minutes or so. I have a 1-watt LED on it which seems bright enough for around-town traffic and great if you happen to forget charging the battery on the halogen light. |
Originally Posted by gerv
(Post 11768161)
Holy cow. This thread took off.
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Originally Posted by interested
(Post 11767468)
Removable Dynohub lights are extremely rare. In fact I have never seen or heard about such lights. It was rumored that B&M was developing a quick release for their lights, but so far it has been vaporware. So for all practical purposes dynamo lights are permanently installed, so you never have to think about removing them or not. You just jump on the bike and ride.
-- Regards The handlebar mounts for the Supernova headlights are also quick release, both the older one which uses Cateye mounts and the new version. Add some decent electrical connectors to the dynamo wire and the taillight power wire and the Supernova headlight becomes a quick install and remove setup too. |
Originally Posted by Arcanum
(Post 11759958)
Pretty much whenever someone asks for recommendations for bicycle lighting, I recommend lights driven by a dynamo hub, despite the extra expense. A few weeks ago, I had an experience that illustrated why.
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