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My commute starts out through an area mostly populated by frat-boys who don't seem to have figured out that paying attention at stop signs is a good idea. I have a helmet light that is mostly dedicated to helping them understand that they need to stay at the stop sign until I pass. I tried it on flashing the other night, I'm not sure it really does anything, but it is annoying, that's for sure.
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Path: No flashing. Light up to see where you are going and for other cyclists to be able to see where you are.
Dark road: No flashing. Light up to see where you are going. City street at night: Flashing and solid. Flash to get attention, solid so drivers can judge distance. City Street in daylight: Flash to get attention. Motorists can see you but may not notice. The main problem with having just a flashing light is that it makes it hard for cars, pedestrians, and cyclists to judge your speed and distance. |
If it blinds you, then maybe you shouldn't have been staring directly at it.
I use flash on the front during the day. Solid at night. I rarely ride MUP's. |
If a headlight is bright enough to comfortably illuminate an unlit road, it's too bright to flash. I run a 150 lumen headlight in solid, and a two-LED white blinky on my helmet.
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Originally Posted by Elad63
(Post 11852777)
I run blinky in front and solid in rear.
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as a biker, i don't want to make friends by 'accident', so being annoying with the flashing lights lets me know i was seen and not 'hurt'. :D
that said, i also find flashing lights are not effective for my own navigation in very dark areas, so i will turn it on solid but normally i have two lights - and i will use my BP2WBlaze as the blinker. for the rear i also have two lights - BP and the Radbot. I keep the BP flashing and i have started leaving the Radbot on solid. Not sure of any difference it makes though whether to leave on or blinking, i just like that combination. |
I think that a flashing headlights are much easier to see. Much more likely to catch the attention of a driver. My safety is more important then somebodys opinion. If they think it's rude then... Too bad. I have two lights mounted on my front rack which I set in a flashing mode and I also have a helmet light which I set as a solid light. My experience has been that, when going through intersections at night a lot of drivers don't see a cyclist until the last second... flashing headlights are much more visible.
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Originally Posted by kimber_94806
(Post 11851942)
Somebody told me that it is rude and might not gain friends if I keep my headlights in flash mode? I am new to commuting so I don't want to be rude to my fellow cyclist if this is the case. I am just thinking that I have a better chance to be seen by an approaching vehicle if it is in flash mode especially during dusk. I actually just got a superflash tails as well for better chance of being seen. I do not want to be rude but I do not want to be unsafe as well. Would love to hear what BF has to say on this. Thanks a lot.
Then there is the classic "moth ball" effect where drunk, tired or elderly people gets fixated on the blinking lights and end up driving right at them. Lots of road construction workers and emergency workers experience, that despite huge, massive, blinking lights and signs, people still hit both workers and signs with alarming rate. Here is an interesting article about how flashing lights, and using ever more lights, works contrary to belief. http://policedriving.com/article145.htm Why traffic accidents happens and how to avoid them is a huge and complicated subject. But human psychology plays a major part. Just getting attention as a cyclist isn't the main thing. It is being "noticed and remembered" in the drivers brain that matters. And peoples brains tend to ignore things that aren't dangerous, or isn't categorized as important traffic. Dressing up like a Christmas tree with many blinking colorful lights may get the drivers brains attention for a split second, but chances are that the brain will categorize it as unimportant, and therefore ignore it. Many cyclist have experienced how drivers in cars coming from side roads, sometimes just seem to be blind; even in broad daylight and with their heads turned against you so it is indisputable that they have physically seen you, they can still drive on as if you didn't exist. It really helps to try getting eye contact with such drivers coming from side roads, so their brains both "notice and remember" you long enough. Again and again in traffic accident cases, you will see the claim "I didn't see him", even though it would be physical impossible not to have seen "him" (the victim that was hit). Some may be lying, but most are telling the truth in a way; they might have physically seen the victim, but their brains didn't "notice and remember" what was seen as traffic. Instead the brain blotted the sight out as something unimportant non-dangerous. This is why spoke reflectors and pedal reflectors are mandatory almost everywhere in the world, even if the bicycle has huge retina searing lights front and back. These reflectors, by painting round and circular movements, convey a powerful message to a drivers brain that what the brain see is a cyclist, not a motorcycle or a static object that can be ignored. Flashing lights on a bike doesn't convey such a message; it conveys static non-traffic object. No other vehicle uses flashing front lights for "safety", not even fast moving motorcycles that are as least as vulnerable as bicycles. So it seems that no-one besides some cyclists, think it is a good idea. All in all, those blinking lights are likely only to give a false sense of security, and may in fact be slightly more dangerous than solid, steady light. -- Regards |
Good point. But what about a flashing light and a solid light.
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Originally Posted by kimber_94806
(Post 11851942)
Somebody told me that it is rude and might not gain friends if I keep my headlights in flash mode? I am new to commuting so I don't want to be rude to my fellow cyclist if this is the case. I am just thinking that I have a better chance to be seen by an approaching vehicle if it is in flash mode especially during dusk. I actually just got a superflash tails as well for better chance of being seen. I do not want to be rude but I do not want to be unsafe as well. Would love to hear what BF has to say on this. Thanks a lot.
Point your bike at a wall from 20 feet away. Does any of the high-intensity part of your headlight beam strike the wall at or above your handlebar height? If so, you're shining your light in people's eyes all the time. That's more dangerous with a blinking light than it is with a steady light, but either one, if bright, can lead people to shield their eyes or look away from you, which can lead some cyclists or motorists to swerve unpredictably since they aren't able to look where they're going. |
Originally Posted by interested
(Post 11854865)
First off all there is no scientific evidence whatsoever that shows blinking lights are safer. On the contrary, research indicates that blinking lights are actually more unsafe than solid lights. Blinking lights are harder to track especially in fast moving traffic. Old research on rear lights showed that they had to blink around 200 times a minute work as well as solid lights when it came to tracking.
Then there is the classic "moth ball" effect where drunk, tired or elderly people gets fixated on the blinking lights and end up driving right at them. Lots of road construction workers and emergency workers experience, that despite huge, massive, blinking lights and signs, people still hit both workers and signs with alarming rate. Here is an interesting article about how flashing lights, and using ever more lights, works contrary to belief. http://policedriving.com/article145.htm Why traffic accidents happens and how to avoid them is a huge and complicated subject. But human psychology plays a major part. Just getting attention as a cyclist isn't the main thing. It is being "noticed and remembered" in the drivers brain that matters. And peoples brains tend to ignore things that aren't dangerous, or isn't categorized as important traffic. Dressing up like a Christmas tree with many blinking colorful lights may get the drivers brains attention for a split second, but chances are that the brain will categorize it as unimportant, and therefore ignore it. Many cyclist have experienced how drivers in cars coming from side roads, sometimes just seem to be blind; even in broad daylight and with their heads turned against you so it is indisputable that they have physically seen you, they can still drive on as if you didn't exist. It really helps to try getting eye contact with such drivers coming from side roads, so their brains both "notice and remember" you long enough. Again and again in traffic accident cases, you will see the claim "I didn't see him", even though it would be physical impossible not to have seen "him" (the victim that was hit). Some may be lying, but most are telling the truth in a way; they might have physically seen the victim, but their brains didn't "notice and remember" what was seen as traffic. Instead the brain blotted the sight out as something unimportant non-dangerous. This is why spoke reflectors and pedal reflectors are mandatory almost everywhere in the world, even if the bicycle has huge retina searing lights front and back. These reflectors, by painting round and circular movements, convey a powerful message to a drivers brain that what the brain see is a cyclist, not a motorcycle or a static object that can be ignored. Flashing lights on a bike doesn't convey such a message; it conveys static non-traffic object. No other vehicle uses flashing front lights for "safety", not even fast moving motorcycles that are as least as vulnerable as bicycles. So it seems that no-one besides some cyclists, think it is a good idea. All in all, those blinking lights are likely only to give a false sense of security, and may in fact be slightly more dangerous than solid, steady light. -- Regards |
What gets your attention:
I have had Two Front approaching vehicles Stop in the road until I passed by them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9fHlI5CcjY |
I usually keep my 1 watt PB Blaze headlight on flash just because it means I have to replace the batteries less often. It's not as bright as I'd like it to be so I doubt I blind anyone, but if I pull up behind a car at a red light I usually point it down so it's not shining in their window.
I'd rather be abnoxious than not be seen. On the rear, I have one steady light and one blinking light (along with a reflector). In the front, I have one 1-watt headlight and a reflector. I also have one blinking red light and one steady white light inside my water bottle. They're visible from the side, rear, and front. That means I have a total of 5 lights and two reflectors. My bike looks like some kind of spaceship. If I could afford it, I'd buy another headlight and a dinotte rear light too. I wish someone would make a cool disco-ball to mount under your saddle that lit up or something equally as hip. It'd be a nice way to encourage hipsters to mount lights on their bikes. |
Originally Posted by AdamDZ
(Post 11852914)
If it blinds you, that means it's working, if it bothers you, too bad, slow down or get out of my way.
To see - solid and as much power as you can get...aimed properly (a cut-off is even better) To be seen in reduced light conditions - a low power strobe or blink. Don't depend on your lights to be seen though...always assume they don't see you. |
I use a flashing light in the rear but not for my headlight. I consider a flashing headlight annoying if not downright rude. If you want drivers to see you better, mount your headlight on your helmet and look at them if you are concerned about not being seen. That works better than any flashing light but is a lot less annoying.
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what dynodonn said. I've had too many near misses during the day where cars pull right in front of me. A bright strobe during the day seems to make as much difference as a bright flourescent yellow/green visibility vest. I'll either set the Dinotte or Petzl headlamp on strobe. If it's night time riding and I want a strobe(not all the time) it'll be the headlamp but it's rotated up so it doesn't blind anyone, unless I want it to.
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Originally Posted by chipcom
(Post 11856100)
This could easily have been taken from a redneck car/truck forum. :lol:
To see - solid and as much power as you can get...aimed properly (a cut-off is even better) To be seen in reduced light conditions - a low power strobe or blink. Don't depend on your lights to be seen though...always assume they don't see you. |
Originally Posted by lonesomesteve
(Post 11855448)
Thank you for a rational, well reasoned post in the midst of a lot of nonsense.
Then again, you may think it's still nonsense. :) |
Flashing or not. A poorly positioned light can be just terrible at those approaching from the opposite direction
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Originally Posted by CACycling
(Post 11852357)
Flashing to be seen, solid to see. I run both.
On the MUP, if there are other cyclists around, no flash, or only a very low powered flash except when coming to street crossings, perhaps. |
Originally Posted by AdamDZ
(Post 11852914)
Better be seen than be dead. Some people perhaps cross the line of sanity with the lights, but I can't hold that again them. Many drivers drive around the city with their high beams on, extra sets of fog lights, halogens and what not, most older cars have improperly adjusted lights, motorcycle lights are blinding too on and nobody gives a rat's ass, suddenly bicycle lights are too bright. F**k that, honestly.
I ride with two MagicShine lights on high, on bike paths I turn them off and switch to a lower power blinkie. On streets they're on high. If somebody has a problem with that they can go and f**k themselves. Seriously. My posts are usually calm and polite but this bulls**t with "OMG, bike lights are too bright!" pisses me off. If it blinds you, that means it's working, if it bothers you, too bad, slow down or get out of my way. |
Originally Posted by slide23
(Post 11852539)
Switch to solid if/when you get on a MUP.
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Originally Posted by interested
(Post 11854865)
First off all there is no scientific evidence whatsoever that shows blinking lights are safer. On the contrary, research indicates that blinking lights are actually more unsafe than solid lights. Blinking lights are harder to track especially in fast moving traffic. Old research on rear lights showed that they had to blink around 200 times a minute work as well as solid lights when it came to tracking.
Then there is the classic "moth ball" effect where drunk, tired or elderly people gets fixated on the blinking lights and end up driving right at them. Lots of road construction workers and emergency workers experience, that despite huge, massive, blinking lights and signs, people still hit both workers and signs with alarming rate. Here is an interesting article about how flashing lights, and using ever more lights, works contrary to belief. http://policedriving.com/article145.htm Why traffic accidents happens and how to avoid them is a huge and complicated subject. But human psychology plays a major part. Just getting attention as a cyclist isn't the main thing. It is being "noticed and remembered" in the drivers brain that matters. And peoples brains tend to ignore things that aren't dangerous, or isn't categorized as important traffic. Dressing up like a Christmas tree with many blinking colorful lights may get the drivers brains attention for a split second, but chances are that the brain will categorize it as unimportant, and therefore ignore it. Many cyclist have experienced how drivers in cars coming from side roads, sometimes just seem to be blind; even in broad daylight and with their heads turned against you so it is indisputable that they have physically seen you, they can still drive on as if you didn't exist. It really helps to try getting eye contact with such drivers coming from side roads, so their brains both "notice and remember" you long enough. Again and again in traffic accident cases, you will see the claim "I didn't see him", even though it would be physical impossible not to have seen "him" (the victim that was hit). Some may be lying, but most are telling the truth in a way; they might have physically seen the victim, but their brains didn't "notice and remember" what was seen as traffic. Instead the brain blotted the sight out as something unimportant non-dangerous. This is why spoke reflectors and pedal reflectors are mandatory almost everywhere in the world, even if the bicycle has huge retina searing lights front and back. These reflectors, by painting round and circular movements, convey a powerful message to a drivers brain that what the brain see is a cyclist, not a motorcycle or a static object that can be ignored. Flashing lights on a bike doesn't convey such a message; it conveys static non-traffic object. No other vehicle uses flashing front lights for "safety", not even fast moving motorcycles that are as least as vulnerable as bicycles. So it seems that no-one besides some cyclists, think it is a good idea. All in all, those blinking lights are likely only to give a false sense of security, and may in fact be slightly more dangerous than solid, steady light. -- Regards You must not ride very much at night. You read articles; information is good, but information and "data" must be balanced with experience. I ride in the conditions and observe behaviour. I go with experiences not "opinions". I bet I'll be safer. Good luck! |
Originally Posted by ZmanKC
(Post 11852508)
Steady beam in the dark on the morning commute. Flash mode on the commute home in the daylight.
Rear light on flash at all times. It terms of being rude or not if one is on a club ride flashing lights can be annoying. But, when commuting one wants to be seen, rude or not. The brighter the better on flash mode. Nobody gets hurt and it may save your life. If riding/commuting on an MUP it would be best to have something like a Cygo-Lite 12w dual HL. It has 2 lights that're 6w halogen each. That way if you're running on 12 and someone yells at you one of the lights can be switched off and you still have enough light by which to see. |
We had a case here locally where an alcohol-impaired driver successfully navigated some twelve miles of normal, typical two-lane highway before he target-fixated on the rear blinkie of a cyclist riding alone on the shoulder.
Originally Posted by cycle16v
(Post 11856416)
I hardly think a lone cyclist would have the same effect to motorist.
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