B17 vs Flyer for commuting
 

Hi there I have a roady that I commute with on my way to work, its a pretty relaxed fit as far as roadies go and during the winter i switch to a mountain bike.

I was eyeing the B17 and the Flyer for a nice saddle but was wondering if I should go with springs or not?

I hit pot holes and have bumpy roads sometimes just like everyone else. Does the springs make a difference? noticable difference? Any downsides? Is the weight actually noticable?

I wiegh ~ 180lbs and at the moment my commute is short ~3km but thats always changing, plus i take ~20km trips often. Nothing huge but nice saddles are nice. Maybe I shouldnt even bother?

I like the sprung b67 on my Surly qutie a bit. I'd imagine most people would like the sprung model brooks better, but they definitely do make a bit of noise if you don't keep a little oil on the front adjustment nut ;0. Mine does anyway.
If you're comfortable on the b17, I can't see how you wouldn't be just as comfortable or more on the flyer. Just like the b68 vs. the b67. Same top, just sprung or unsprung.

I have the Brooks flyer pre-aged. Comfy right out the box. I believe Brooks recommend springs if your saddle is even or below your handlebars.

should i even both with a brooks saddle if im riding as little as I do?

I prefer the sprung saddles over the solid ones. With the exception of the B135 the saddle springs are very stiff and serve to take the edge off of bumps and jarring.

I am a bit heavier than you at ~215# the only time I notice the springs flex is when I hit a bump or don't unweight the saddle going over a road obstruction or pot hole. To me they take the edge off the rough ride and make things a bit more comfortable. FWIW all of my Brooks saddles have been comfortable right out of the box and have only gotten more so the longer I ride them.

Buy your Brooks from Wallbike and they have a return policy that cannot be beat.

Aaron :)

Why not ride a Brooks? I started riding mine when I had a 1.3 mile commute to work, it did break in. BTW I do my current 13.5 mile RT commute with both a B17 narrow and a Flyer on my mountainbike with Nitto All-Rounder bars set maybe an inch above my seat.
I was using the Flyer exclusively (had the B17n on my roadie) but the frame on the Flyer broke and am using the B17n while I wait for a replacement Flyer frame to arrive from Wallbike.
I thought there be a lot of difference, but the differences aren't huge - when I spin at high (110+) RPMs on the Flyer I tend to bounce a bit, on the B17n my pedaling at high RPM is smoother. Going over bumps, the Flyer is nicer - no need to lift off the saddle to absorb them (nice when I'm still half asleep on my ride in).
Honestly, I don't think you would go wrong with either. Of course, if your butt doesn't fit a B17, then all bets are off.

so the flyer causes you to bounce at high rpms? I typically spin around 100 rpm so that could be an issue.

I don't bounce at those rpms on the Flyer. I would think if you are bouncing that the saddle might be just a tad high.

Aaron :)

Bounce at high rpms? Cyclists worry about the most goofy things. No, you won't bounce from sprung saddles - you aren't the only fit, high-spinning cyclist to ride a sprung leather saddle.

The width of the saddle being wide enough for your sit bones is the real thing you have to worry about. B17 doesn't work for me in any position -- b68-b67 is great.

I ride Brooks sprung saddles... a form of suspension is worthwhile and it smoothens the bumps and contours of the road quite well.

I bought a KHS "Urban-X" commuter bike recently and I love it, except for the saddle. It got better with the proper adjustment, but I still just am not comfortable on it. So, after some research, I decided that for me the best choice would be a Brooks honey color 170mmx280mm (6.75"x11") "Champion Flyer" (sprung B17) and the best price I found was at Wallingford Bikes (wallbike.com) At $99 + $13 shipping (New Orleans to California) this was a much better price then I have seen anywhere else, even on used Ebay saddles.. they even give you a half price on the Brooks Proof leather dressing if you want it. When I get it and have time to try it out I'll report back with the results.

PS: From the Wallingford Bike site, where else are you going to get a 6 month, unconditional guarantee like this, quote:
" * 6 Month UNCONDITIONAL SATISFACTION GUARANTEE - new BROOKS saddles. Return your new saddle at any time within six-months of the ship date for a full refund of the price of the saddle. Shipping will not be refunded unless there is a manufacturing defect that would make the return a factory warranty issue."

I too, am about 180 lbs and I have both the B17 (on the majority of my bikes) and one Champion Flyer on my townie (a converted Panasonic DX4000). I prefer the unsprung B17 for most riding even short rides. I like the Flyer but it still doesn't feel as comfortable to me as the regular old B17 and my Flyer is pushing 15 years old so it is fairly broken in. Tough saddle though; I had it originally on my mountain bike and it has survived a lot of crashes. Frankly I get better suspension with fatter tires.

Flyer on my T700 touring bike (main commuter) B 17 on the sport bike. Like them both The springs do soak up the occasional bad spot in the road but no real complaints about the B17.

I have my seats adjusted properly and don't bounce on my Flyer.

I had a flyer on my brevet bike and the bike I did the ironman with. I found that on a long ride, the spring helped to take the edge off and kept me comfortable longer. I never had any issue with bounce, but it did take a few hundred miles before it was really comfortable for me. My average cadence is 95-100 but I often spin up to 120-130 during rides and I never bounced due to the springs. When I got a new road-bike, I went with a B-17 narrow, mostly due to cosemetics...I thought the look of a sprung saddle on a CF bike would probably kill any cool factor I might muster from the looks of my bike. I find that with the B-17 I raise off the saddle much more than I did on the flyer, and that my endurance is still adequate for riding distance. I moved my flyer over to my breezer-8 commute bike, and it works great there. The combo of fat tires and a sprung saddle makes it like riding in an old caddy...weight included :) Hope that helps.

The sprung saddle permits a little more side-to-side motion, which may be interpreted by some as bouncing. If you're riding on perfectly paved roads all the time, then stick with B17. Those who commute on bad roads should benefit from the Flyer.

I'd vote for the B17.

I had a flyer on my Cannondale. Could NOT get it to be comfortable. Swapped it out for a B17 Imperial and haven't looked back.

i was talking to someone who seemed knowledgable who stated that the flyer (or any sprung brooks) can be an issue because as you put different amount of weight on your saddle (hard pedaling vs coasting) the springs will cause the angle to change thus putting pressure on your soft tissue at times. thus if you are going to be change handlebar positions or not pushing the same amount your whole ride, the b17 is a better option.

The spring saddle are more for upright riding positions. If you look at Brooks catalog the narrow saddles are not sprung.

I'm 220lb. The only time I feel those springs give is a good wave or bump in the road when I am on the hoods or top of the bar. Those springs are VERY stiff. The bike it is on has the top of bars just a little higher then the seat.

The bike I have with the B17 the bars are lower. I do tend to notice a little more numbness on the B17 more because of the handle bar height having my hips rotated further forward. As the bars go down the spot on the sit bone that comes into play narrows down necessitating a narrow saddle.

While that person did have the right idea as your bars go down in relation to the seat you CG moves away from the spring meaning the springs come less into play making the Flyer and even the standard B17 less desirable for that geometry. You would want to go to the B17N (narrow not available sprung) or one of the other saddles more designed for the lower bar height.

I agree that the springs are more for uprights...
but the guys argument was that springs cause the angle of the seat to change based on the amount of weight on the seat.
This is because of the amount of load on the springs changing...also apparently after ~1000km the springs become mushier... I couldnt argue with him.

do you guys not beleive in this?

The springs can be tightened and/or replaced. The only saddle I have that I have noticed any shifting due to springs is on the wider B66/67 which is used on a very upright bicycle so it is carrying maximum weight. Also on that bike I don't spin as fast.

Aaron :)

Hmmm I guess it possible that the springs sag with age or a really big rider but it will be a lot more then 1000km. I have about 2500 miles (4,000 plus km) on mine now and I haven't noticed a change in the angle just a little sag in the leather where my sit bones are once it broke in. I had to initially tilt the nose up a little to keep me back on the saddle till it started to break in (slippery) on both the B17 and the flyer. Then I leveled it up at about 500 mile. Pretty common comment with the Brooks.

I ride a flyer on my mixte road bike that I commute on, and I recommend it... my handlebars are about even with the saddle, and basically, the B17 and Flyer are identical except for the springs, so on my pothole and tree root on the MUP ridden commute, I like the springs. Though as I don't weigh a whole lot (less than 150 lbs). I actually find it possible to be bounced up out of my saddle when I hit some big bumps-- but if you are a larger male, perhaps this should not matter. Otherwise the springs are very stiff and don't flex at all.