It's not the wearing of headphones that shows a disregard for other's safety, it's the moving erratically without paying any attention to traffic around you. If deaf people can safely navigate on a MUP, so can 'phoned people, they just need to learn how. And just because someone has headphones on doesn't mean that they won't hear your bell. Some people listen at a reasonable volume, and just because others don't doesn't mean you should not give fair warning. Lastly, intentionally cutting close to people is a d**k move; it's an MUP, so maybe you should learn to share, show respect for people who are just out enjoying what is essentially a park, and save your passive-aggresive BS for the road.

Would get thrown out of court. Called "contributory negligence". Basically both parties at fault and it's a wash.

Personal opinion is that yeah, there's some cyclist responsibility but the jogger was a dope. I got one the same way about a year ago. Only one I really feel for was the one running with two dogs I spooked with an "on your left" and she face planted in the trail when she tripped looking back.

silly assumption.

silly assumption.

BTW, I've got two words for you: Air Zound... oh, wait... that's one word actually ;) Oh well... If the idiots don't hear THAT, then at least no one should question whose fault it is :D If I see people with headphones I use the horn, don't even bother with the bell or yelling out.

It's always unpleasant to have contact with the headphone zombies. It was nice of the OP to take the brunt of the encounter by leaning away from the inevitable impact. It is usually safer for the cyclist to lean into a certain collision with a movable object, but I understand the reluctance to do so. By steering away you may save both of you from damage, but if you don't succeed you could be much worse for wear. Where I live, the bike paths have numerous solid objects at the edge (light standards, concrete blocks, map displays, mile posts, planets (scale replicas), concrete walls, bars...). It encourages me to carefully consider what actions the zombies could take and make sure I always have an out.

I'm really surprised this thread has gone on this long about (what would/should be) a common sense issue. The jogger made a U-Turn without first looking around to make sure it's safe. We actually have signs that say if you are going to turn around, you need to first go onto the shoulder and turn around and look and then go into the other lane. The jogger isn't an idiot but he was certainly in a moment of not thinking. There was nothing else the cyclist could have done about it to alleviate the situation, except for not being there in the first place.

Common sense people, seriously.

You could be talking about some of the people here with the same sentence.

Not really sure what you're getting at here. Though I, too, am glad the damage and pain was negligible.

Yes, it is an accident. I don't think anyone intended it to happen.

It is an accident where the jogger is at fault.

I won't immediately say 100% because I don't know OPs speed, just how radical the U-turn was, etc., but the jogger did have a responsibility to NOT make the radical move. In the end, CCrew is probably right about it netting out to contributory negligence / wash in court, unless there was God-cam video showing that this jogger's stupidity was on par with that we see all the time then it would be victory for Steely Dan. Good thing it looks like this doesn't need to and isn't going there.

The only way I would point even a fingernail at Steely Dan was if he was going recklessly fast, passing recklessly close to the jogger's original track, or this happened right to be at a junction or such where the jogger was making a predictable "legal left turn" and not from the right hand lane. I doubt any of those are true. Random no look U-turn at the point where he has run far enough or remembered he left the oven on doesn't shift fault.

I think this below is well said, pallen. People do stupid things, accidents will continue to happen. I'll be a part of fewer at 10-15mph than 20+. And when they do happen, and they will, I'll have done my part, and the other guy will be at fault, whether I would win in court or not. And I'm praying that the other "guy" is not some kid in a baby stroller with a clueless mom / nanny.

Amen! Seems to be a recurring theme around these boards! I had a similar experience after my mishap on Christmas Eve. Anyone with a brain can read the OP and get the picture... some people love to twist things around and stir up ****.

My sympathies to the OP. Anyone who rides on MUPs can easily relate to wear you are coming from.

andy

Something tells me you were the jogger.

All jokes aside, you're wrong. Legally and in your reasoning.

Steely, I'm glad to read that you, the jogger and your bike all came out without incident.

Joggers on MUPS are suppose to run against-the-flow of bicycle traffic.

For all those peeps that have made assumptions that all joggers should be run off a multi-use-path, you scare me.

Blasting me in the face with 200+ decibel horns? Are you really serious?

I run against the flow of bicycle traffic when I do my 10+ mile runs on the path. The one thing I've noticed around here consistently is cyclists going 18+ MPH balls out on the path with no regard for the other users of the path. As a bike commuter, cyclist and runner I can honestly say I've seen both sides of the equation making bad decisions.

Most runners use headphones on the trail because we've become a society accustom to being hit with white noise. I've done some 4:30 a.m. long runs without headphones and found myself scared to death on some of the more desolate areas. Dogs barking, not on a leash and getting aggressive, snakes, rabbits...all these things are seriously freaking scary when you're running in the dark with one single headlight on, much like an attack by an air horn...I'd probably fall down, slip or break something if that quiet was blasted from behind me.

You scare me, a lot. :twitchy:

I contend this is false. I've seen lots of printed information to the contrary and I can think of lots of reasons why it's a bad idea.

MUP rules are much less uniform than road rules, but did you actually see this someplace official?

No, I saw nothing official. I apply the same rules for running on a MUP as I do for running on roads. I take into account the fact that I don't actually trust other cyclists in this region for being a bit more gun-shy about turning my backside on a 200 lbs. + missile cruising a MUP at upwards of 20 MPH. My speed range is not empirical, or documented by devices clocking them specifically, but I can say that I've had sprints alongside the MUP with some of these cats where I was pushing a 20 MPH line on a side street and they passed me by a few dozen yards easily at the visible markers I'm using. They weren't racing me and I've seen a few of them consistently. Teeth gnashed, big ringging on the MUP.

I honestly wouldn't run "with the flow" of these peeps or the other slower traffic on the MUP I see that consists of bobbling people with helmets over their eyes on mountain bikes with their knees buckled out. There are obviously exceptions to this, where I see very considerate riders that even slow down to make eye contact with me before passing (hence reinforcing my theory that I'm better, safer and more visible running in the opposite direction of traffic. They see my headlight, and I see theirs (when they're not ninjas). Otherwise, the first thing I usually hear in the dark is "hey!" because I've killed their elite night vision with my beam of headlight.

WRONG.

Utterly and completely WRONG.

Why? Imagine trying to run against traffic on a crowded MUP.

If you can't figure that one, I'm cheering on the horns - they really do need to BLAST AWAY at you.

Yeah, well so do rabbits. R-A-B-B-I-T-S.

A you freaking kidding?!?!?! RABBITS?!?!?!

HTFU.

Seriously - HTFU.

Achoo,

You're probably one of those guys that thinks runners should stay single file, running on the white line praying people like you don't slam into them from behind. Furthermore, I never said crowded MUP. I suggest you read beyond the word rabbit and then slather the spittle from the sides of your mouth onto your monitor in the future.

Blast me, I double-dog dare you keyboard commando.

Every sound at 4:30 a.m. is a trip after a 10 mile run. Get out and find out before judging me.

I'm hard, you hard, interweb tuffguy?

good thing you had time to react. In my view, pedestrians and dogs and especially kids always have the right of way regardless and if you are riding a bike on an MUP you need to be going slow enough and paying enough attention to be able to react to anything, and you should always creep by little kids and dogs really slow because they could do anything.
I commute most of the way to work on a couple of MUPs, but if I am out walking, and some cyclist blows past me carelessly I am going to say something, and here in Northern California there are a lot of "entitled" cyclists.

MUPs were designed by idiots so it is no surprise people using them often behave like idiots. Pedestrians on MUPs are unpredictable so it is best to pass them very slowly even when you think you have their attention. It is sort of like car doors - when you get doored the person opening the car door is 100% at fault but you are still an idiot to ride in a door zone at speed because it is entirely predictable that sooner or later someone will open the door in front of you. MUP stands for Many Unpredictable People.

+1. :thumb:
Those are the rules on the bike paths around here. Walkers, runners, etc on the left, cyclists on the right. It works great when people actually follow the rules. When I'm riding, I always move over for the peds, and since they can see me there are no surprises. When I'm running on the path, I've noticed other cyclists doing the same for me.

The only close calls I've ever had were from those idiots that did not heed the signs on the path.

I'd have an open mind if you actually provided some of the reasons, but until then I'll have to rely on my actual experience.

-1 :rolleyes:
I suspect there's nothing I could write to enlighten someone so clearly married to their opinions. ;)

Too bad there are so many of you. That's probably why there are so many mups with these unsafe rules.

Every MUP around here that I've seen has signs for everyone, walkers, joggers, skaters, cyclists, and all the rest to stay on the right.

Glad you and the jogger are ok.

I've seen joggers with headphones on Kelly Drive get whacked because they tried to pass walkers, then get collide with a bicycle behind them because they cannot hear and rarely look behind them. At the same time, I see people on road bikes ride on Kelly drive all the time in packs going ridiculously fast. It sucks to see or be in collisions because people are reckless or oblivious to their surroundings.

Also, I frequently see joggers jog on the city bike lanes, taking the whole lane up and wearing headphones. AGH! This is very annoying.

Hopefully that Jogger won't make the same mistake again, and use proper caution when using a shared trail.

I was the cyclist in a similar instance except I hadn't given warning and I went over. I assume the jogger was fine since she left before I got up.

Are you absolutely sure about that? Because everywhere I've seen posted rules, everyone stays to the right. Maybe the pedestrians you see walking on the right are from somewhere else.

He is correct for Rhode Island. The state considers bike paths roadways and applies the roadway rules for pedestrians (same rules used in every other states that I know of for pedestrians on roadways without sidewalks). But I do not know of any other state that applies these rules for MUPs (formally called Bike Paths). The surrounding states to RI apply the standard MUP rules and will create conflicts with inter-state MUPs.

http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/resources/...s/pdf/9_75.pdf

One more point for you RI Bike Road walkers and runners; under the law as a pedestrian, when a bicycle approaches in which there may be a conflict, the pedestrian is required to step off the Bike Road to clear the way for the cyclist. The same laws are in effect for every other state roadway I am aware of.