How to be more upright on drop bars?
 

I'm choosing whether to buy a cyclocross road bike or a flat bar hybrid for my commuting bike. I test rode a few cyclocross bikes and I'm in love with the "Hoods" position - it feels so natural! However, usually the stock stem height is too low for me. Has anyone had any experience putting a threadless stem raiser and/or adjustable stem for their drop bars? I'm wondering if that will give me an upright position comparable (but not necessarily the same) as a flat bar hybrid. Giving me more comfort and the option to still attack headwinds on the drops.

Basically I'm hoping to raise the drop bars above seat height and bring them back towards my body. Anyone have experience with this?

A little background: I currently ride a '73 Schwinn Continental that is one size too big for me. This has really turned me off, albeit unfairly, to drop bars for commuting and has made me associate it with back pain for long and short rides. I used to ride a "Dutch" style hybrid with an adjustable stem with raiser bar that I could sit perfectly upright on.

Its not too common to see cross bikes with handlebars higher than the saddle, the geometry of the bike is generally built so that the rider will be in a more forward position rather than upright. If you really like the feel of the cross bike and hoods, it may just take some time getting used to that positioning. However, it is doable to put a different stem on the bike, and is not uncommon. The ritchey road adjustable stem is really popular. Dimension also makes a bunch of stems with varying angles and lengths.

ssYou could use an adjustable stem- but once you find your "sweet spot" swap it out for a fixed one. But I'm by no means a drop bar expert, so I'll let others comment on what you are proposing to do.

Flat bars with good grips (Ergon) + bar ends makes for a pretty comfy ride. If you want to attack the wind, then you could install a clip on aero bar. Or you could try one of those butterfly/trekking bars that will get you more upright closer in, but allow you to stretch out a bit (depending on how you orientate it).

I was looking at cyclocross bikes last year but ended up getting a touring bike instead. The selection of cross bikes wasn't very good, most were geared at racing and the few I tried just didn't feel right. At one store's miniscule indoor oval I kept hitting the front tire with my toe (not a test ride indicitive of every day use). I was also concerned since I bought the bike specifically to use with panniers that their might be heel strike issues.

Other things like fender clearance / eyelets etc reduced the suitable options available locally to zero.

+1

Once you find a sweet spot, something like this Profile Aris stem with a 25 degree rise would work nicely: http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...s.php?id=32964

If you really want the stem high and you can't find a stem with the right length and rise, you can get a new fork with an uncut steerer tube and then have a bike shop size you for the new fork. Once you find the correct height, they'll cut it for you. You can only do this with a fork with an aluminum or steel steerer, full carbon forks are limited to 35-40mm of headset spacers so the handlebars tend to be low (unless the head tube is really long)

Oh and that's another thing to look out for. Get a bike with a long head tube, that'll give you more options to get your handlebar higher.

Get a steeper angle and shorter stem. I wouldn't hurt to get an adjustable to dial in your settings. FWIW I quite often ride bikes with adjustable stems, makes life a lot simpler.

Aaron :)

Don't forget to slide your seat forward a bit... Hoods are the more ergonomically correct position for your wrists/elbow, so no surprise they're comfortable.

Don't change your seat to change the reach, change it for better pedaling. Then, for reach, change the stem.

I put a smaller stem on my flat-bar Bianchi hybrid when I converted it to drop bars. Saddle position stayed the same. Now it's basically a Volpe with fenders and a dynohub (plus my own add-ons):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...e/IMG_0307.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...e/IMG_1029.jpg

You may want to consider a touring bike as your commuter. The Surly Long Haul Trucker, Kona Sutra, Trek 520 and others are all popular choices. Compared to a cross bike these are going to have a more relaxed geometry (including an upright riding position) that's going to be comfortable for riding long distances instead of going fast. Typically they'll also have more braze-ons for attaching racks, fenders and that sort of thing, and are better at carrying large or heavy loads. They come with wider tires than a road racing bike, so like a cross bike they will be good for light trails as well as roads.

Or...
Find a relaxed geometry frame that puts you into a more upright position than the cross frame does. Lots of cross frames are fairly aggressive geometry - some almost as much so as road bikes.

Sounds more to me that you haven't found the right bike for your needs, and are trying to make something not quite right work. My advice is to keep looking rather than buying a bike you're not comfortable with out of the gate and trying to change it.

However, realize that a bolt-upright riding position can also be hard on your back because bumps from the road will go straight up your spine instead of just rocking you forward. If I had an upright bike, I'd at least have a sprung saddle -- maybe even a suspension seatpost -- to help save my back. I don't need stuff like that on that Bianchi or on my road bike, though.

Technically speaking, if you only adjust your saddle-to-bar length by placing the bars higher and further backwards you change the bicycle's centre of mass rearwards. To compensate you should adjust the saddle position forwards and upwards as much as is comfortable. This puts you even more up-right, so be sure your stem is tall enough that you don't feel like you're digging for clams.

The reach and stack of a frame never change.
http://lp1.pinkbike.org/photo/2797/m...pic2797197.jpg

Seat forward pushes your center of gravity forward putting more weight on your hands. Bad idea in most circumstances. Adjust the stem length.

Cross bikes tend to have a higher BB for better ground clearance. That means you are going to have to have the seat higher in relation to the ground to get the proper riding position. Cross bikes are also sized with a lower stand over to allow for some room if you have to put your foot down off road on uneven terrain. If you have an issue where you need a more upright riding position and you do not plan to do off road then a cross is a bad choice. Go with a touring bike or a conventional road bike.

I personally am of the camp of the highest I can stand over and a fist full of seat post. I have lower back issues and havign the bars high takes a lot of strain off my back. The tallest you can stand over is going to already have the bars at a higher in relation to the saddle.

If the bike you end up with has a Quill stem this is a handy little item that will let you run a modern 1 1/8 stem and it has a LOT of adjust ability.
http://store.velo-orange.com/index.p...m-adaptor.html
I use it with a 17deg stem on my main commuter.
If you end up with a bike with a 1 1/8 you can extension if it has had the steer tube cut. If you buy new make sure they discuss with you what you want before assembly so they don't decide to cut the steer tube if it comes uncut.

My Ideal size would be a 60cm but most of my bikes are 63cm.

Couple pictures as examples with that stem I linked.

My first T700 that was a bit small.
http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...0&d=1244918792


Here are the same components on the larger frame.
http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...2&d=1245285253

Side by side before swap
http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...1&d=1244919117

road bike but put in a longer stem.

Think about this, the centre of mass moves backwards with your shoulders when you shorten the stem, by moving the stem upwards you relieve more pressure off the hands. By, shifting the seat forwards you move your hips and centre of mass forward so you can try to get back how the bicycle was balance previously. If you simply shorten and raise the stem the bicycle will handle differently due to the centre of mass difference. This is one reason why bicycles come with different sizes, HTA and STAs.

The Aris stem really is nice. I have an 80mm version on my brevet bike, which is about 2cm short in the frame for me. A tall post and high-rise stem do the trick quite nicely.
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._5029093_n.jpg

"Surly? You can't be serious!"

"I am serious....And don't call me Shirley."
(In memory of Leslie Nielsen)

That's a nice looking ride Clifton!

I'm confused about what many people have said about cyclocross frames having a more aggressive riding style than road bikes. I'm looking at a Motobecane Fantom CX and the published frame geometries seem similar to the Windsor Tourist (a touring bike). Can anyone clarify? For reference, I've posted the geometries (I'm 6' with 34"/863mm inseam):

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/1435/newbikegeo.png
The Tourist doesn't seem like an option, as the Windsor site says that it comes in to nearly 30 lbs. I don't do any long distance touring to justify the bike weight, despite my desire for a similar geometry.

Thanks everyone for posting pictures of their bikes, it has been very helpful and has given me hope that a well fit bike for me is out there. I noticed that everyone's stems are very short, which makes sense for bringing handlebars closer to the body and getting more upright. I would love to have a stem that is as short and elevated as possible. However, when I was test riding cross and touring bikes today one sales person said that I shouldn't reduce the stem length too much (I remember something about reduced turning radius). What are the problems with reducing stem length?

I've seriously considered butterfly/trekking bars, but I've never used them. I'm reluctant to drop money on a flat bar hybrid and spend time configuring these bars without having used them. Maybe I'll get my hands on a cheap hybrid/MTB and try them out.

Check out the new Salsa Casseroll. It has a long head tube, so it's easy to raise your handlebars to saddle height. Also has cantilever brakes (like most cross bikes) and clearance for fenders and tires up to 38 mm.

Or the Vaya, similar geometry but discs. I.ve since flipped and dropped the stem, but out of the box it's pretty relaxed.

http://www.tsplace.com/jeep/salsa.jpg

The center of gravity is at the top of the hip bone when standing. As you hunch over that moves forward. THe goal is your CG be far enough back that you can lift your hands off the bars when your butt is on the saddle. That allows you to shift the weight around between your feet, hands and Butt.
Simply moving the seat forward moves your hips forward in relation to the crank center. The forces more weight onto your hands and if you get the seat far enough forward if you attempted to lift your hands off the bars you would go over the handle bars.

Yes if you raise the stem it will move the CG back to some extent but the saddle it to adjust your hips in relation to the BB not to adjust reach.

Sheldon's site has a good bit of info

http://sheldonbrown.com/frames/index.html

This is the part about saddle placement.

http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-sizing.html#frontback

Good quote from Sheldon:

For adjustable stem options, Montague just released the Octagon as an aftermarket component. Works using a quick release so no tools needed after installation.

As someone said: look into touring bikes, they're more suitable for commuter duty than road racing or cyclocross bikes. They have more upright position, lower center of gravity and longer wheelbase which makes them more comfortable for regular riders. They're also tougher. They're still road bikes in essence but built for comfort and cargo hauling rather than for speed.

I use an adjustable stem on my cyclocross bike for this reason. It's heavier than a normal one, but cheapish at about $30.

http://www.ritcheylogic.com/dimg/thm...ee50683d0d.jpg

The further ahead of the headtube your hands are, the smoother the handling; the same works in reverse and if the stem is too short, handling can feel a bit jerky. This shouldn't concern you too much though, since basic hand positions on drop bars make the stem length effectively much longer than if you had a flat handlebar. For a race bicycle where every nuance counts, stem length can make a difference, but for casual riding people even use handlebars that put their hands behind the head tube and it simply doesn't matter.